The sort of symptoms they mention could be just one indication that the person  is unfit for work.
But it could also indicate something quite different.
As one would expect, it is very likely to be a few facts wildly distorted to make a newspaper story.
People do say "Don't believe everything you read in the papers."

Someone very close to me is on Incapacity benefit and the questions are not that straight forward, it may apply to people with Agoraphobia and those may be included as two of the symptoms. After all the Sun will be bleating out Dave's slogan that everyone claiming benefit are work-shy fraudsters.

I make it a rule not to believe anything I read in the Sun or the Daily Mail.

I assume everything they print is utter bollox

How has he got the cheek to call anyone else a fraudster?!

ugh, he gives me stabby rage

I understand exactly 

Oh yeah of course and I'm sure there are quite a few inaccuracies in th story however for me the basis of it kind of underlines how bad our benefits system is - on paper it's great but in reality it's a joke.

I also know people who are on or have been on incapacity benefit who really shouldn't have.  Personally I think those that genuinely need to be on hte benefit will find the question far more probing than those playing the system mainly because those playing the system clearly have no conscience.

You have to have so many points to pass, it's not simply the case of it being great on paper and in reality it's a joke. It's the same in all walks of life, yes there will be some that have claimed it and shouldn't be on it, there is also a lot of people been refused it that should be on it...nothing is foolproof,

I gave up reading papers ages ago. I only ever read the local rag now or very occasionally the Sunday Post 

as in my above post I agree, there are also a lot of people been refused it that shouldn't have been, not all disabilities are obvious.

Personally for me the whole system needs to be reviewed - in recent years there has been talk about concentrating on what people can do rather than what they can't - personally I think that is a very good idea and the sooner it is introduced the better.

and where are we going to get these jobs? So if a person is deemed to be fit enough to do one thing, but there is not a job in that category.. we sling them onto job seekers forever ?

Obviously things like that would have to be worked out - the system isn't foolproof (what system is) - however by the same token at the moment someone may be unable to do one type of work due to a disability (say manual labour for example) and they are just slung on to incapacity benefit for the rest of their lives.

If it was that simple the system would have been altered years ago, at the minute I can't see that the alternative system they are putting in place will benefit disabled people. Fact is, loads of people that can only do certain types of work, certain hours, can't stand/sit/walk/ for any length of time will be thrown onto JSA with very little chance of finding employment to suit their needs, and that is unfair in anyone's book.

You're very wise.

I know.... *nods wisely*

It really isn't that simple Hevva. Honestly, love, if you had to negotiate the system with the kind of mental health problems I have (which I wouldn't wish on anyone - except the woman next door!) you would see.
I could sit here and point out exactly what the guidelines mean but I've never been into sharing really personal stuff on here.

Yes, there are people trying it on who should be working.
Suffice to say, with benefits as with the legal system etc is it better to allow one guilty person to get away with cheating the system or take away the system so the innocent can't get a fair deal??
You decide I guess

Classic quote from the so-called TaxPayers' Alliance

I wish I could have said that in one post, instead of my previous umpteen trying to explain it  

Mr Blizz suffered from acute anxiety, for quite a few years.


He couldn't get on the train, would always have to be near the door, if he was in restaurants, cinemas etc. (that's if you could get him into one) and was lucky that he worked for a brilliant firm who made it possible for him to work from home and didn't expect too much from him.


I think those signs are exactly what medics should be looking for, in people suffering from anxiety.

I can't agree with that sorry - in this day and age we should be able to introduce a system whereby "scroungers" are stopped from doing this kind of thing.  No it won't be easy - I imagine it also wouldn't be very nice for genuine claimants but for me personally things have to change.  At the end of the day in the present system the inocent aren't getting a fair deal because of the false claimants - the only answer for me is to overhaul the entire system.  I believe focusing on what people can do rather than can't is one way though I am sure there are also many other options - as a country we can't keep shying away because of a fear of how some people may react.

That's always a good idea.



Although, it may involve offering people who have had difficulty gaining employment, through disability etc., a bit of extra help.

But the problem is that what you would call a scrounger is what someone else would call a genuine claimant.
For example, one of the questions that is asked on the forms is about if you need to have an alcoholic drink before a certain time in the morning or summat. There are a vast majority of people who would think that alcoholics are willfully making themselves unable to work by drinking. But you would also get a lot of the medical profession who would argue that alcholism is a disease and therefore those suffering from it should be entitled to help.
I personally don't know enough about alcoholism to make a judgement on that: I only include it as an example of the conflicting opinions around

Obviously things like that would have to be judged by professionals with the know how etc - like I said it wouldn't be easy and there will be plenty of grey areas like this that need to be considered properly - but it needs to be done - there are too many peopple getting away with it for us to just ignore it any more.

now this is the time I will leave the debate 

Isn't that what the article was talking about?

a you will see te word was used in inverted commas - it is a common term not really one I would usuallu use but the best way of getting my point across in the written sense rather than going round the houses

As far as I can see, all the article is doing is encouraging more fraudulent claims, by giving people clues as to what the medics will be looking for.

that's been thrown about far to much of late by Davie and his cronies, a vast majority of people on incapacity benefit have to have medicals it's not just signed away on that basis of someone filing in a form. It makes me cringe when I hear the word 'scrounger', because I know how my brother had to fight to get it and I wouldn't wish what he had on anyone. Like I stated previously some disabilities are not obvious, although now my brothers is very obvious. We j\have scroungers in all walks of life, we have people who can talk the talk and are in jobs they are totally inept at.... it happens, but I agree with Veggie, you don't take away things from the people who are in the most need it because of a minority.

I'm still confused about what is wrong with telling the doctors what to look out for, when considering whether someone is suffering from anxiety/stress.


Surely it's better than them just accepting that someone who comes in saying that they are stressed, or anxious, is genuine?

It makes no difference they have taken just two references out of something to blow it all out of proportion Blizzie, these guidelines will be out of the window in a few weeks anyway.

True!


Maybe we should give voters guidelines on looking for a beating heart in their politicians.

or a job looking for one,  long term employment Blizzie  We've sorted the welfare debate and unemployment out in just one thread 

I find it very hard to put forward a rational argument when some misguided FM quotes the scum. I now see where the previous days' ill feeling originates.

i agree

Agreed!

I thought you might.