quote:

Originally posted by Demantoid:

quote:

Originally posted by Moomin:
I've obviously made (unintentionally) some people on here a bit cross.

If you mean me, I'm not

I did mean you, so thanks for that, Deman

We only bought the business for a better quality of life - my OH is a sub-postmaster who is earning less now than when we came here 12 years ago because POs are gradually being stripped of all the things that used to be our life blood, and so we had to find an alternative method of income.

quote:

Originally posted by Demantoid:

quote:

Originally posted by Moomin:
I've obviously made (unintentionally) some people on here a bit cross.

If you mean me, I'm not

Hi Demantoid, I know how it feels to do a job that brings you to despair. I tortured myself and my hubby when i was unhappy in my last job. I actually left without another job to go to - it was that bad! I know there is a recession on and money or jobs are not plentiful, but life is too short to be in a miserable, crappy job. Best of luck finding a new one - and I mean that.

hey moomin, it's so different when it's such a small company, it's your daily bread! I can understand where you are coming from.

You haven't made me cross either, I perfectly understand it from your point of view...you have to make money to support yourselves plus your other employees.

I just know if my marriage went tits up or summat happened to my family I'd be a bit barmy...and not in the fun way. I certainly couldn't cope with turning up at work and working productively...we're all different. I just wonder if she is swinging the lead or genuinely messed up and confused now?

Good luck anyway.

quote:

hehe if you think its bad NOW wait until the eaton mafia are running the place,

agreed
they would not give a second thought..will make all the right noises and mininum effort!
not their moccassins innit?

quote:

Originally posted by loislane:
Her doctor more than likely gave her a cert saying she is stressed. There is not much you can do really she is going down all legal paths.
My OH left yesterday I have a daughter to take care of no break up is easy L must be very upset.

So sorry to hear that, Lois.

Sorry, I'm a bit out of touch with employment laws these days plus I feel a bit mean mentioning this as 'L' obviously has problems, but do Part Time/Seasonal employees have the same rights as Full Time employees?

quote:

Originally posted by Hollygolightly:

quote:

Originally posted by Demantoid:

quote:

Originally posted by Moomin:
I've obviously made (unintentionally) some people on here a bit cross.

If you mean me, I'm not

Hi Demantoid, I know how it feels to do a job that brings you to despair. I tortured myself and my hubby when i was unhappy in my last job. I actually left without another job to go to - it was that bad! I know there is a recession on and money or jobs are not plentiful, but life is too short to be in a miserable, crappy job. Best of luck finding a new one - and I mean that.

Thank you so much!
You've encapsulated my situation to a tee.

Toid

as I said before, have you thought about setting someone on as a "temp" to cover her while she is off?

quote:

Originally posted by loislane:
Her doctor more than likely gave her a cert saying she is stressed. There is not much you can do really she is going down all legal paths.
My OH left yesterday I have a daughter to take care of no break up is easy L must be very upset.

quote:

Originally posted by Moomin:

quote:

Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:
Agree with others- for many,getting ratted and throwing yourself at opposite sex are sure fire signs of reactive depression following a break up .
However,from an employers point of view and if you want to be ruthless!: In most cases, employees can't claim unfair dismissal until they have worked for you for a year or more.... However, not being funny moonmin but, if you're running a business, you really ought to make yourself aware of basic employment law and get yourself some decent HR advice. As a start, suggest you have a look at Acas website www.acas.org.uk or call the Acas
Helpline 08457 474747.

Thanks, Super - we have already done all that, and been on the HMRC site about SSP, but it seems that we haven't a leg to stand on as she has a sick note. Though I can see this going on for a very long time and we have to keep on paying her for 28 weeks.
Thanks for your advice, I've obviously made (unintentionally) some people on here a bit cross.

like I sad, try the flowers, wether you feel genuine about it or not, kts a nice touch and when my employer sent me some that time I felt much more apreciated then i had, plus it was very touching but now i look back and wonder was it a cynical move?!!

quote:

Originally posted by Hollygolightly:

Thanks, Super - we have already done all that, and been on the HMRC site about SSP, but it seems that we haven't a leg to stand on as she has a sick note. Though I can see this going on for a very long time and we have to keep on paying her for 28 weeks.
Thanks for your advice, I've obviously made (unintentionally) some people on here a bit cross.

[/QUOTE]

You probably can dismiss 'though Moomin if you wish- like I said, she's probs got few rights if she's worked for you for less than a year i.e. she can't take you to tribunal, (unless for certain things e.g. discrimination/general breaches of human rights)....ya know this is potentially v compicated- you need to buy in some proper legal advice, 'cos every case is different....and...as a note for the future. talk to your insurers about getting cover for sickness!

quote:

Originally posted by pussycatj:
Toid

Thankoo

It's "L" I feel sorry for though. She sounds like she's hitting rock bottom, poor cow. I agree with Ella on the previous page - a bunch of flowers and a supportive message are far more likely to get her back to work, feeling motivated, than waving legal options at her.

If she comes back and is still not performing, then do things by the book and then get rid of her, if need be.

quote:

Originally posted by Ella:
L sounds like the Boy who cried Wolf. Maybe she has been taking the pee in the past and now genuinely needs the time off due to the marriage failure. The drinking all day and throwing herself at men in the bar sounds like she's having a rough time lately. However, I can understand why you are at your wits end with her it's hard on both parties I suppose. I, personally, would send her a bunch of flowers telling her you were thinking about her and were looking forward to her return fom work as soon as she is better then as someone else said, do everything by the book by giving warnings in writing and then finaly sacking her if she really is a nightmare employee. She might just need this time off to get her head stright and may return with fire in her belly.

you are a plagerist (if thats how you spell it) lol!!

quote:

Originally posted by electric6:
The whole throwing themselves at opposite sex and spending too long in the pub thing seems to me to back up the depression/marriage probs claims

just what i was going to say, having done that with my depression in my past

i dont have any advice for you OP as i haven't been in your boots, but she could very well be depresion by what you have described....plus a marriage break up isn't an easy thing to cope with at the best of times

quote:

Originally posted by Dame_Ann_Average:

quote:

Originally posted by loislane:
Her doctor more than likely gave her a cert saying she is stressed. There is not much you can do really she is going down all legal paths.
My OH left yesterday I have a daughter to take care of no break up is easy L must be very upset.

Lois
I really hope you're OK.

quote:

Originally posted by loislane:

quote:

Originally posted by lainy m:

quote:

Originally posted by loislane:
Her doctor more than likely gave her a cert saying she is stressed. There is not much you can do really she is going down all legal paths.
My OH left yesterday I have a daughter to take care of no break up is easy L must be very upset.

How long had you been together lois?

4 years my daughter is 7 months. I have a thread in the lounge I really didnt mean to hijack this one.

Thanks to all who have been compassionate on here. I have only told my mum so I cant be ringing her all day as she works full time. Talking on here is helping.

quote:

Originally posted by Moomin:
We only bought the business for a better quality of life - my OH is a sub-postmaster who is earning less now than when we came here 12 years ago because POs are gradually being stripped of all the things that used to be our life blood, and so we had to find an alternative method of income.

I can imagine that must be really tough, and hats off to you for making a go of it.
The thing is, though, if you run a small firm you have to accept that employees will sometimes have problems, and deal with them.
Big firms (like the swines I work for) can ignore people cracking up because the bosses are all working several floors higher or indeed in another city, and couldn't give a toss.

Small firms are like families - and sometimes families have dysfunctional elements
I'm willing to bet you'll get more sense out of this woman if you try a little tenderness. If she's genuine, she'll appreciate it and try her best to be back soon.
If she's not genuine, she won't be able to claim she's been treated badly, at some tribunal in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by pussycatj:
hey moomin, it's so different when it's such a small company, it's your daily bread! I can understand where you are coming from.

I can too. We are a small business and work to a very small profit margin .....something like this can cause a lot of damage.

quote:

Originally posted by pussycatj:
hey moomin, it's so different when it's such a small company, it's your daily bread! I can understand where you are coming from.

So can I pussycat.

When you're running such a small company and employees let you down when you know full well they're not really sick, it really rankles.

We had a similar situation to Moomin's so I can identify with what she is having to endure.

Moomin's employee asked for leave but, when she was told it wasn't a convenient time, she immediately took herself off to her GP and got a sicknote for stress in order to obtain the same!

GP's hand out sicknotes willy-nilly.

It happens even in the public sector Moomin and it leaves others having to fulfil the duties for the person who has decided to go sick because she couldn't get her own way.

I hope you manage to overcome the problem satisfactorily Moomin and I really feel for you in having to contend with the extra pressure as a result.

Good Luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by forgetmenot:

quote:

Originally posted by Ella:
L sounds like the Boy who cried Wolf. Maybe she has been taking the pee in the past and now genuinely needs the time off due to the marriage failure. The drinking all day and throwing herself at men in the bar sounds like she's having a rough time lately. However, I can understand why you are at your wits end with her it's hard on both parties I suppose. I, personally, would send her a bunch of flowers telling her you were thinking about her and were looking forward to her return fom work as soon as she is better then as someone else said, do everything by the book by giving warnings in writing and then finaly sacking her if she really is a nightmare employee. She might just need this time off to get her head stright and may return with fire in her belly.

you are a plagerist (if thats how you spell it) lol!!

I meant to say I personally would do as someone else said and send the flowers but am FBing at the same time and got lost in my ramblings

Employment Law is very complex. As a small firm you must and should make sure that you have the law on your side on this. Legal advice can be quite expensive and you may feel that this could impact on you running your small business as far as cash flow is concerned.

My advice to you is to go to the Citizens Advice Bureau for free advice, as soon as possible, and act on what they say. It does sound to me that this person L is finding it hard to cope with life at the minute and you have to tread very carefully. I hope you resolve the matter amicably. Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:

quote:

Originally posted by pussycatj:
hey moomin, it's so different when it's such a small company, it's your daily bread! I can understand where you are coming from.

So can I pussycat.

When you're running such a small company and employees let you down when you know full well they're not really sick, it really rankles.

We had a similar situation to Moomin's so I can identify with what she is having to endure.

Moomin's employee asked for leave but, when she was told it wasn't a convenient time, she immediately took herself off to her GP and got a sicknote for stress in order to obtain the same!

GP's hand out sicknotes willy-nilly.

It happens even in the public sector Moomin and it leaves others having to fulfil the duties for the person who has decided to go sick because she couldn't get her own way.

I hope you manage to overcome the problem satisfactorily Moomin and I really feel for you in having to contend with the extra pressure as a result.

Good Luck to you.

Hyacinth, Pussy Cat - Thank you

not something i ever had a problem with but as so many have said its so hard to prove although it is possible she is trying to scam you it does on balance seem that she might be being genuine, just make sure that if you are going to do something about it you do it BEFORE her first year is up, maybe as a good and kind employer you could offer her some assistance in the form of a visit with a private doctor, there are quite a number who will carry out examinations on behalf of companies with the advantage of no personal ties with the patient, that way you'll get a report back one way or the other and in return you get an employee who thinks you do care and if she is having problems a new doctor might be able to suggest something to her that her own doctor hadnt considered and she can take to her doctors to get further help.

Why not try ringing ACAS? They will advise you on where you stand within the law.

quote:

Originally posted by Soozy woo:

quote:

Originally posted by pussycatj:
hey moomin, it's so different when it's such a small company, it's your daily bread! I can understand where you are coming from.

I can too. We are a small business and work to a very small profit margin .....something like this can cause a lot of damage.

....... and often does Soozy.

quote:

Originally posted by Demantoid:

I can imagine that must be really tough, and hats off to you for making a go of it.
The thing is, though, if you run a small firm you have to accept that employees will sometimes have problems, and deal with them.
Big firms (like the swines I work for) can ignore people cracking up because the bosses are all working several floors higher or indeed in another city, and couldn't give a toss.

Small firms are like families - and sometimes families have dysfunctional elements
I'm willing to bet you'll get more sense out of this woman if you try a little tenderness. If she's genuine, she'll appreciate it and try her best to be back soon.
If she's not genuine, she won't be able to claim she's been treated badly, at some tribunal in the future.

and the flowers I work for a very, very big 'organisation' but also support and advise a lot of v v small outfits with certain serious disciplinary matters..I'd also say, unless you want to do 'get yourself to the sunshine for a few weeks to recover' (which I did on the advice and the full support of my employer when my dad died,) arrange a 'kindly/supportive/staff welfare' home visit during the time you think she's going away on hol

We all get fed up/depressed at times for things that happen in our lives but I've always found the best remedy is to absorb myself in work - you soon forget your troubles and get on with the job in hand.

When my Mother died in unexpected circumstances, I was given three days compassionate leave and I was grateful for that but I would never have abused it and asked for more simply because I felt depressed.

I did feel very low indeed because it was such a shock but I would rather have been busy at work than moping about at home!

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:
We all get fed up/depressed at times for things that happen in our lives but I've always found the best remedy is to absorb myself in work - you soon forget your troubles and get on with the job in hand.

When my Mother died in unexpected circumstances, I was given three days compassionate leave and I was grateful for that but I would never have abused it and asked for more simply because I felt depressed.

I did feel very low indeed because it was such a shock but I would rather have been busy at work than moping about at home!

That's exactly my feelings, and experience, Hyacinth.

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:
We all get fed up/depressed at times for things that happen in our lives but I've always found the best remedy is to absorb myself in work - you soon forget your troubles and get on with the job in hand.

When my Mother died in unexpected circumstances, I was given three days compassionate leave and I was grateful for that but I would never have abused it and asked for more simply because I felt depressed.

I did feel very low indeed because it was such a shock but I would rather have been busy at work than moping about at home!

Agreed, but every particular situation/person in that particular situation is different Hyacinth..I've had some life traumas where work has been an absolute refuge, others where I would have been, frankly, dangerous if I'd gone in.....Just in case anyone thinks I'm a 'shirker' I've been in one full time job or another since the day I left full time education 27yrs ago..work on average, 60hrs extra a month and never take my full quota of annual leave..and have probs worked more extra hours this year than I've had sickness in my life!

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:
We all get fed up/depressed at times for things that happen in our lives but I've always found the best remedy is to absorb myself in work - you soon forget your troubles and get on with the job in hand.

When my Mother died in unexpected circumstances, I was given three days compassionate leave and I was grateful for that but I would never have abused it and asked for more simply because I felt depressed.

I did feel very low indeed because it was such a shock but I would rather have been busy at work than moping about at home!

With all due respect then, you have never suffered with depression.
Depression is never simple and while it is better to try to keep yourself busy, some days it can be impossible to get out of bed and hold yourself together.

I can't manage my life day to day without anti-depressents, if I forget to take them, I feel the effects and so do my family.

From what has been said about L, it sounds as if she does have depression and is struggling, I went through similar when my 1st marriage broke up.

And just for the record, Dr's do not hand out sick notes wily nily...

quote:

Originally posted by Ennis Del Beadle:

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:
We all get fed up/depressed at times for things that happen in our lives but I've always found the best remedy is to absorb myself in work - you soon forget your troubles and get on with the job in hand.

When my Mother died in unexpected circumstances, I was given three days compassionate leave and I was grateful for that but I would never have abused it and asked for more simply because I felt depressed.

I did feel very low indeed because it was such a shock but I would rather have been busy at work than moping about at home!

With all due respect then, you have never suffered with depression.
Depression is never simple and while it is better to try to keep yourself busy, some days it can be impossible to get out of bed and hold yourself together.

I can't manage my life day to day without anti-depressents, if I forget to take them, I feel the effects and so do my family.

From what has been said about L, it sounds as if she does have depression and is struggling, I went through similar when my 1st marriage broke up.

And just for the record, Dr's do not hand out sick notes wily nily...

Ennis

I agree....the affects of depression can never be understated, it rules your life, messes with every day, and most definately affects the way you cope with stuff..

Wattay! Hope you are fine and dandy xx

It does upset me when people rattle off about depression when they have no idea what it is like to live with.

quote:

Originally posted by Ennis Del Beadle:
Wattay! Hope you are fine and dandy xx

It does upset me when people rattle off about depression when they have no idea what it is like to live with.

I'm actually...I forgot to take my tablets, then couldnt remember later on if I had or not, so took them...then realised I already had....so that's two lots of EVERYTHING I have taken...painkillers, BP tabs and everything else too....I expect to keel over at some point...

If you are likening your business to a family then why not do what you would do with a family member. Go round and enquire as to how she is. If she believes that you are genuinely concerned for her well being then it may well help her recovery as well as helping your business.
I know it isn't easy and it's something you could well do without but getting involved with the complexities of employment law could tie you up for quite some time.

Good ****ing christ some of the shit spouted on here would make me laugh if it wasnt so downright ****ing offensive and ignorant.

quote:

Originally posted by MoFo:
Good ****ing christ some of the shit spouted on here would make me laugh if it wasnt so downright ****ing offensive and ignorant.

Whaaat?

quote:

Originally posted by Demantoid:

quote:

Originally posted by MoFo:
Good ****ing christ some of the shit spouted on here would make me laugh if it wasnt so downright ****ing offensive and ignorant.

Whaaat?

Add me to that whaat

quote:

Originally posted by hal:
[QUOTE]hehe if you think its bad NOW wait until the eaton mafia are running the place,

agreed
QUOTE]

that tickles me sooo much