What a Twit he is 
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I feel a bit sorry for Ben, he has no skills and is apologising too much. He is a big fangina though at the same time.
Yes who has clearly not read animal farm Oh and he is a fascist all that crap he was talking about elites Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
thats sort of what i think about him jo, but i felt DEAD sorry for him when scabby was being fake nice to him.
ive not read it though so cant really comment 
Don't trust him he is a baddie who plays dumb when caught out 
he needs some backbone the big duffus.
Yeah the 'natural hierarchy' thing I was thinking 'ooh don't go there you sound like a nazi'
I don't think he is he's just completely clueless.
Yeah the 'natural hierarchy' thing I was thinking 'ooh don't go there you sound like a nazi'
I don't think he is he's just completely clueless.
What a fab thread I can't take to Ben
He really has no life skills whatsoever, I think he's been brought up in a very sheltered environment where this idea of behaving in a certain way is all you need to get by. Unfortunately that way is from an Enid Blyton schoolboy book from 1954 and not really relevant to 2010 UK. I blame the parents.
Reference jonono Today at 21:55:
Yeah the 'natural hierarchy' thing I was thinking 'ooh don't go there you sound like a nazi'
Didn't Sunshine imply that almost immediately?As for Ben's interpretation of "Animal Farm": I think it's a case of "seeing what he wants to see".
He described the premise of Animal Farm pretty accurately IMO. It's a secondary school book anyhow, I'm sure lots of people have read it.
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Yeah the 'natural hierarchy' thing I was thinking 'ooh don't go there you sound like a nazi' I don't think he is he's just completely clueless.
That's how the right wing gets power, though - by relying on the complete stupidity of people like him. I have no sympathy for him at all.
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He described the premise of Animal Farm pretty accurately IMO. It's a secondary school book anyhow, I'm sure lots of people have read it.
I thought so too. His parents are both teachers so I imagine he would have read it at some stage.Reference:
He described the premise of Animal Farm pretty accurately IMO. It's a secondary school book anyhow, I'm sure lots of people have read it.
Yes I think most people have read it however he made some fundamental errors. The animals were not well looked after and they did not kill the farmer and his wife.
But George Orwell, himself, used the 'natural hierarchy' described in the book to show how closely linked Socialism was to National Socialism (Nazis) so Ben's interpretation is a valid one.
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As for Ben's interpretation of "Animal Farm": I think it's a case of "seeing what he wants to see".
Yup and twists it a bit where it suits him. 
I did wonder what book he was describing. But then again I forget more then i remember.
But yes Ben has constant foot in mouth.
But yes Ben has constant foot in mouth.
Reference:ding dong
Yes I think most people have read it however he made some fundamental errors. The animals were not well looked after and they did not kill the farmer and his wife.
They were initially..and yeah they ousted the farmer, but he was getting the Russian Revolution facts mixed up with the literature. I'm not even going to defend him, but I don't think he was that way off and he was explaining it to someone who wasn't aware of it...kinda like how I'd explain it to my kids who have no historical context to the story.Reference:
But George Orwell, himself, used the 'natural hierarchy' described in the book to show how closely linked Socialism was to National Socialism (Nazis) so Ben's interpretation is a valid one.
Really I thought it was Marxism and not Socialism. He was making a case for a dictator of dictators who control there "sheep" I think he said.
Reference suzybean Today at 22:02:
He described the premise of Animal Farm pretty accurately IMO. It's a secondary school book anyhow, I'm sure lots of people have read it.
He made some very basic mistakes.He said the animals were treated well by the farmer - wrong.
He said the animals killed the farmer and his wife - wrong.
He said the bigger animals eventually gained power over the smaller ones -wrong. The pigs took control (the largest and most physically-powerful animals in the book were the horses, Boxer and Clover).
Ben was essentially implying that the animals had been better off under the farmer, which wasn't Orwell's intention at all - as the ending makes clear, he was showing that there was no difference.
He obviously read it because he described the book just as it was written. There's been a long running feud between the factions whether he wrote it as a book about fascism or communism (as they turn out equally bad eventually), but I don't think that there has been a definitive outcome to the book yet.
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I did wonder what book he was describing. But then again I forget more then i remember. But yes Ben has constant foot in mouth.
Hay farming gag hoochie XX
Yes eugene, but I heard him say the animals all ate under the farmer's rule (they did) and you are correct the 'cleverest' animals (pigs) did take over, but he had already just said that he views intelligence/knowledge as strength so I still don't see that he is completely off the mark. He was telling JJ not the Exam Board.
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He made some very basic mistakes. He said the animals were treated well by the farmer - wrong. He said the animals killed the farmer and his wife - wrong. He said the bigger animals eventually gained power over the smaller ones -wrong. The pigs took control (the largest and most physically-powerful animals in the book were the horses, Boxer and Clover). Ben was essentially implying that the animals had been better off under the farmer, which wasn't Orwell's intention at all - as the ending makes clear, he was showing that there was no difference.
Agree very much.
Agree very much.
Reference: Suzy
He was telling JJ not the Exam Board.
I thought that one of the points of Animal Farm was that power corrupts, ie the pigs who had the power owing to being able to read and write, used that power to change things and eventually there was no difference between them and the humans (who were originally the enemy) not (as ben was implying) that natural hierarchies 'take care' of lesser mortals, In animal farm they totally stuffed the lesser mortals to get comforts for themselves. As always happens. As was Orwell's point.
Poor daft ben. All that education and still thick as 2 short planks.
Poor daft ben. All that education and still thick as 2 short planks.
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he had already just said that he views intelligence/knowledge as strength
What a shame he doesn't have any himself. Bless.Reference:
Poor daft ben. All that education and still thick as 2 short planks.
But that's exactly the point he was making.Reference:
Yes eugene, but I heard him say the animals all ate under the farmer's rule (they did) and you are correct the 'cleverest' animals (pigs) did take over, but he had already just said that he views intelligence/knowledge as strength so I still don't see that he is completely off the mark. He was telling JJ not the Exam Board.
No the farmer forgot to feed and take care of them as he was drunk.
The biggest animals where used buy the pigs and eventually sold the the glue factory
I accept he was telling JJ and not the exam board but he told it his way to suit a very dodgy society he wants to live in.
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I thought that one of the points of Animal Farm was that power corrupts, ie the pigs who had the power owing to being able to read and write, used that power to change things and eventually there was no difference between them and the humans (who were originally the enemy) not (as ben was implying) that natural hierarchies 'take care' of lesser mortals, In animal farm they totally stuffed the lesser mortals to get comforts for themselves. As always happens. As was Orwell's point.
Now thats how i remember it, but i suppose it depends on your English teacher Reference:
What a shame he doesn't have any himself. Bless.
He does. If people don't see that, maybe they're the daft ones.Reference:ding dong
I accept he was telling JJ and not the exam board but he told it his way to suit a very dodgy society he wants to live in.
That's just it, he'd already declared his position as a 'Feudal Paternalist' so he's bound to seek justification in everything he sees or reads...just like how the Bible is interpreted in a multitude of ways. Whether I agree with him or not, he did have the grace to declare his agenda.
Ooh my English teacher was great.
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He does. If people don't see that, maybe they're the daft ones.
He's bloody brilliant at hiding it, then. 
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Reference: What a shame he doesn't have any himself. Bless. He does. If people don't see that, maybe they're the daft ones.
There are different types of intelligence and he has ZERO social intelligence.Reference suzybean Today at 22:13:
Yes eugene, but I heard him say the animals all ate under the farmer's rule (they did) and you are correct the 'cleverest' animals (pigs) did take over, but he had already just said that he views intelligence/knowledge as strength so I still don't see that he is completely off the mark. He was telling JJ not the Exam Board.
I would still say that his central point was still wrong, though. He was implying that the animals were better-off under the farmer (Czar) than under animal rule (Communism). However I would suggest the famous ending makes it clear that Orwell thought they were both as bad as each other:"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again: but already it was impossible to say which was which."
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That's just it, he'd already declared his position as a 'Feudal Paternalist' so he's bound to seek justification in everything he sees or reads...just like how the Bible is interpreted in a multitude of ways. Whether I agree with him or not, he did have the grace to declare his agenda.
So we Agree? I am sorry If you did not pick up the sarcasm in the title of the thread.
Mine too, My French teacher was hateful though.
Must re-read A F*puts onto list of re-reads*
Must re-read A F*puts onto list of re-reads*
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I accept he was telling JJ and not the exam board but he told it his way to suit a very dodgy society he wants to live in. That's just it, he'd already declared his position as a 'Feudal Paternalist' so he's bound to seek justification in everything he sees or reads...just like how the Bible is interpreted in a multitude of ways. Whether I agree with him or not, he did have the grace to declare his agenda.
Bo**ocks, he's just talking how he sees it. Actually, for a Tory boy, being brought up in preppy school, he is very thoughtful of other people's feelings, he should be hoovering them all up and be top dog if he was really the upper class knob that some make him out to be.
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I would still say that his central point was still wrong, though. He was implying that the animals were better-off under the farmer (Czar) than under animal rule (Communism). However I would suggest the famous ending makes it clear that Orwell thought they were both as bad as each other: "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again: but already it was impossible to say which was which."
The farmer got drunk and neglected the animals. at the end its just the same. the Czar and with his aristocracy and the President and his Party are just the same.