Hi Blizzie I agree with your post it is all true

nail and head 

Thanks Marge and Dame Anne.

I should, of course, have mentioned that the Financial Services Authority here, and our own government, allowed the market free rein and did not question the wisdom of dealing in these debt packages.

Dunno if anyone's brought this up, but what hacks me off is that pensioners who emigrate still get their cold weather payments.

Really? Why ffs!

Blizz, totally agree with what you just said on the other page. The subprime market is what started all this. I was working in property in 2006 (when things were still going great for the economy) - and the switched on estate agents I was dealing with back then warned that the bubble would burst and a recession would hit like a tornado within a few years because the banks/economy would not be able to withstand the amount of borrowing. At the time nobody really bothered to listen (me included - quelle surprise ) I then moved into the Construction market about 6 months before the recession hit and that's when it all started to crumble. The banks stopped lending cos of the subprime crash, so new builds and existing projects didn't get the funding to keep going, knock on effect to suppliers and manufacturers, people started to lose their jobs etc.

The most shocking thing was that when signs of the recession first kicked off in the property and construction markets, it wasn't highlighted enough and people not involved in those markets were carrying on as normal as there was no serious indication that anything was wrong (which wasn't their fault as the warnings weren't given). I would watch the news and there'd be celebrations of financial success in the UK and was right confused cos I knew property prices were dropping by the thousands, building work had ground to near enough a complete halt and companies like Barratts were in serious trouble. Don't know if anyone is solely to blame for what happened, but it seems that the early indications of the problems were either blissfully ignored or the message wasn't strong enough as to how the property and construction markets' problems could eventually affect the rest of the economy.

There was something on the news the other day about expats claiming benefit.... they're entitled to some (why ffs?!) but apparently there is a lot of fraud. Doesn't make such a good outraged Daily Heil headline though

Nearly 65,000 Britons living in European countries including Spain, Portugal and Greece are receiving state-funded winter fuel payments designed to help them cope with cold weather, it emerged today. Yet people who will die from the cold in this country will get nothing.

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=499771&in_page_id=2#ixzz11UgWs9yU


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/f...-courtesy-of-the-eu/
 

I have always thought child benefit should be means tested but the way its seems to have been worked out, that lone parents will suffer, a lot of this money is paid to childcare which is becoming more and more expensive. The cold weather/winter payments for well off pensioners needs to be reviewed too. its ridiculous that some spending their winters abroad still receive it

Free TV licences for the over 75's may be axed too.

Thats an absolute disgrace

I posted this on the wrong thread..



The public sector was always going to be punished singled out as the area to suffer the most cuts.

I think most of us could cope, most of us would tighten our belts if we thought that the whole country was going to be the same.
However as per usual it isn't. It was on the Today programme this morning that top bankers were going to award themselves 7.3 billion in bonuses at Xmas. 
Apparently Boris Johnson who has always defended the City has urged them not to in this economic climate. But the chances are that they will.

Similarly the whole child benefit debacle. They had the housing minister on the Jeremy Vine show and the number of texts and emails that were coming in saying that child benefit should be tested on the household income - not one income. I mean how is is ever fair that a couple of a combined salary of £60k plus should get this benefit when a  single parent or stay at home parent should not get it because they or their partner earn £44k? Interestingly none of the parents on £43k plus were moaning that they were not getting it - just that there should be parity.

We know we have to make sacrifices - but we should all make the same.. 


One more thing.... on another forum th -at I frequent, a woman said... and I quote cos you will love it...

" do they not realise how hard people who earn the threshhold amount have to work? And how expensive it is to live in 'middle class' areas"

My heart bleeds.....



As you were...

It's them poor hard working middle class peeps Isa

Cameron is now hinting that some of those losing their child benefit could gain it back in a married person's tax allowance scheme, which they originally were planning just for those paying the lower rate of tax.

So, this could end up costing them far more than they are saving by cutting child benefit and will still leave unmarried couples and single parents worse off.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/f...could-cost-billions/

They really didn't think this through!

I think they will have to go back to the drawing board Blizzie, they are trying too hard too soon and just not thinking this thru

I like to think it's because, in theoretical economic terms, they are like my arse - best kept out of sight. In short, they have no fecking idea.

And as far as I know raising the free bus pass age to 65 

Yes but how many people realistically retire at 60 nowadays?
Not many...

I think children who have to travel to school by bus should have free bus passes, it did happen years ago, but doubt it will happen with this Government

It's a farce isn't it Blizzie?

Yesterday I backed it not quite appreciating what a mess it really was. 

So the situation is that a couple both earning £43,000PA get child benefit and a single income couple/parent earning £44,000PA doesn't get it. 

In these austere times when benefits for the poorest and disabled are being cut, I've no problem with those on £44,000PA+ not getting child benefits, but for them to find that the couple with a potential £86,000 combined income are still getting child benefits is absurd.

So what do the Tories do, rather than adapt their back of a fag packet idea so this unfairness is removed and rich couples don't get child benefits, they start messing around with allowances for married couples to appease the Daily Mail and the middle classes who don't like having their benefits removed and seem to imagine only the poor should pay for the recession. 

Funny how the poor have to take the cuts on the chin but as soon as the better off take a hit there's wails of anguish and the government caves in.

I was like that too Carnelian until. like you I had the chance to absorb it all properly,

I would say the majority of people retire at 60 mainly because they want to and some not so lucky who have had to leave work due to illness or being made redundant, it is a bit mean to target the elderly in my opinion.

I don't know Marg - I do not consider 60 old at all and I know that many 60 year olds would take great offence, 60 is the new 50 and we are all living longer.

I was chatting to the voluntary liason person where I work and she said that whereas 10 years ago, the volunteers were all  retired 60 plus people, nowadays they seemed to be younger people doing work experience and (sadly) unemployed people.
She said the over 60s were all off working.

B and Q have a policy, as do many other large shops, of employing older people.

I am 46 - I am not expecting to retire before 70. I know of one colleague who has just retired at 72.

Boundaries have changed - age cannot be pigeon holed by a number anymore and I am sorry but 60 is not old!

I do not begrudge over 60.s getting free bus travel, but its just another one of those things that should be means tested. There are people who have never worked one day in their life, who automatically get a free bus pass. If a family of four here take their kids out for the day and use the bus it will cost £12 for day tickets before they have gone anywhere. It does seem unfair that 2 adults, over 60 with a good income can travel anywhere in Scotland for free.

They do, there is an Oyster card for 11-14 year olds and free travel for kids under 10 (I think? Might have changed)

Not in Scotland, Karma

Isadora I know what you are saying about 60 not being old and I take my hat off to those who are fit and healthy enough to work as long as they can, in some cases they have no option but to carry on working if you are receiving a  basic state pension it is a pittance and does not go far..

haha was it netmums? i'm sure i read that comment there

Oooh really? But then again Scotland get free prescriptions, your bus fares are not a straight up 2 quid and overall things are cheaper than London (apart from some of the restaurants) so I guess it balances out. I'm in London, we get stung for everything. *Still moaning about monthly commute costing £210 a month*

Anyone who studies and works their way from ground level to a good position deserves to earn a good salary. Most of the time it takes years to work your way up and most would have had to start on really crappy salaries.

As for how expensive it is to live in 'middle class' areas. Then feckin move and stop whinging. Job done.

LOL. I more or less said that Karma and then implied that perhaps there was some Daily Mailitis going on here.

At this I was told.. "We do not have newspapers in this house".

Further tongue biting ensued..

They do up to the age of 18 if they're in full time education...well in London they do..(funded by the people who live here via their London assembly payment in the council tax).well they say its free but its not quite cos you have to pay £10 for the oyster card but given that its £2 just to go one stop without one its a small price to pay. They need an oyster card frm age 11, before that they are just allowed on the buses for free....

Re the free buses for pensioners it would make sense that it linked to the retirement age...so at the age where one can draw a state pension you should get the free bus travel.

I think it was Skylark who mentioned free travel for the unemployed...i've never heard of that before and am pretty sure people down here do not get that.

Not to mention no tuition fees for Uni....

I know in Brum the unemployed don't get free travel - thank God for off peak travel bus passes as in Brum we have some of the highest bus fares in country 

School children whose families are low earners can get free travel but they have to be at a school that is 2 miles from their home but no more than 6 miles away!

The thing that ticks me off about children's half price fare is that there is no longer this proviso that children should give up a seat if an adult is standing.  Well if that's the case and we're all equally entitled to the seat, why shouldn't children's fares be raised to that of an adult or better still adult fare reduced to that of children????? *waits for missiles* 

Pengy..there are no childrens fares in London....so for kids that might very occasionally need to jump on the bus but don't have an Oyster card, if they are over 10, they have to pay the same as adults.

Mind you a few years ago i did have an altercation with an old age pensioner over my son giving up his seat (he was about 8 at the time).  We were going home from school and when an old lady got on he stood up to give her his seat but obviously didn't move quick enough for her liking cos she started shouting at him to move.  With that i told him to sit back down and told her that good manners go both ways and if she wasn't willing to extend any to my son then she shouldn't get the benefit of his good manners in offering her a seat!

What used to really get my goat through was day in day out listening to the OAPs with their free bus passes moanning about the buses being full of schoolkids...this would be between 3.30 and 4pm everyday...the kids couldn't alter the time they finish school but the ones with the free passes could travel any time after 9.30...why get on at a time they knew the schools turned out just to moan about it??

  they should bliddy introduce that here because kids here still only pay half price! 

In this instance I'd have done the same  manners does work both ways although it seems to be a rare animal in any age group these days.

absolutely   must admit I try and avoid travelling when the kids are finishing school or when it's rush hour although that's not always possible.  If it's not possible, then you have to take the rough with the smooth.  I think people forget they were kids once 

It is a pain though cos ,my 11 year old doesn't have an Oyster card cos he walks to school so rarely uses the buses (and i've not got round to getting him one yet)...we went down to greenwich last weekend to spy on the filming of Pirates of the Caribbean 4 and for just me and him it cost £8.00 there and back....it would only have been about £10 to get a taxi there and back!

Ouch!   Do you not have all day tickets?   Adult ones here are £3.30 and children are £2.40 for any  bus in Birmingham, Coventry or the Black Country however many times you want to use it within 24 hours?  Train tickets are far too expensive to pay here unless you have a bus pass that includes rail travel 

I'm ok on rail travel cos i have a family railcard which gives big discounts...you can buy one day travelcards....except there is nowhere nearby that sells them and you can't get them on the bus!

  our buses dispense them automatically - they are a little longer than our normal bus ticket. Isn't it strange that there are different systems all over England never mind between England and Scotland