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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11464300

Child benefit is to be axed for higher rate taxpayers from 2013, Chancellor George Osborne has announced.

Talking on BBC One's Breakfast ahead of his appearance at the Conservative party conference, he said the move would save about £1bn.

"It's a big decision for us, but we think it's absolutely necessary and fair given the financial situation we face," he said.

Parents earning over about £44,000 who pay 40% tax and above will be affected.

It is estimated the change will affect about 1.2m families - 15% of the total number.

Mr Osborne said: "It's very hard to justify taxing people on much lower incomes in order to pay the child benefit to some of the better off in our society."

He confirmed the cut would hit homes with a single or two high earners. But families with two parents on more modest incomes - which might add up to over £44,000 - will keep the benefit.

He defended this by saying his plan was "the most straightforward" option - which avoided means testing.

 

I agree that if a family is in receipt of a joint wage exceeding 44k and have one child (or even 2 children), then they are not in as much need of CB in comparison to a family who are not earning that amount. That's quite clear cut and fair I would say.

BUT

What about single parents who may just scrape the 44k threshold who have 3 or 4 children. Or even families with both parents who have 3 or 4 children who just border the threshold? 

While I agree in principal with their idea, something doesn't feel right and I think it SHOULD be means tested on a case by case basis. Some salaries are dependant on bonuses so will fluctuate depending on achievement, not everyone earns a flat basic salary.

He has also cut the cold weather payments for pensioners Anyone with half a brain knows how bloody expensive fuel is these days - why is he taking from the most needy when in his manifesto he clearly said this wouldn't be the case?

 

Yes, Cameron is trying to make his shit stick and show he's gonna sort this country out (and keep banging on about the debt Labour left him with - nobody forced the bloody git to stand did they) - but I am NOT liking his tactics thus far.

I do like a Monday morning rant!!

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Not in theory, no. But what about people who earn low basic salaries but earn their salaries through bonuses? My salary used to go up and down like a whore's draws, one month I'd hit the 40% bracket, other months I wouldn't. I am more pissed about the pensioners losing out so should have directed the thread at that probably.
Karma_
Reference:
Doesn't seem unreasonable.
I saw the interview on the news this morning and I agree People who earn £44k+ aren't really going to rely on child benefit in the same way low income families are, and I did agree that it isn't fair to tax someone on say £18k so someone earning £50K can get child benefit
SazBomb
Reference:
Me too Karma...that`s a sore one.
It's ridiculous, Scotty. And so bloody unfair. Fair enough, pensioners who are financially comfortable and can afford to heat their 7 bedroom pile in Surrey shouldn't get the benefit, but again it's Cameron doing this 'sweep' approach and not means testing. Arrrghh I really do not like that man at ALL.
Karma_
Reference: Karma
It's ridiculous, Scotty. And so bloody unfair. Fair enough, pensioners who are financially comfortable and can afford to heat their 7 bedroom pile in Surrey shouldn't get the benefit, but again it's Cameron doing this 'sweep' approach and not means testing. Arrrghh I really do not like that man at ALL.
I agree! Pensioners on low incomes have depended on their winter fuel payments. I know my old Mum did. She, like them all, felt they could turn the heat up and not worry.  I`m outraged!
Scotty
Child Benefit - I agree with him (Gawd help me). Not only do the richest not need it but if you are in the poorest bracket and on other benefits then your child benefit is viewed as money coming in and taken off your income support or whatever you get now if you have kids. So the very poorest get no benefit (no pun intended) from it.
As to the fuel payment - how much is it now? At the risk of being lynched by the forum again I agree with him to a point.
Why should workers living in cramped accomodation because they can't get/afford somewhere bigger have to pay for 1 or 2 people to heat a massive property that's too big for them? If you can't afford to heat empty rooms then move somewhere more suitable that you can afford to heat.
FM
Is it being cut for pensioners who earn over £44k??

If so then i don't see a problem....obviously the ones that only have their old age and perhaps a small pirvate pension should keep it.

Witht he child benefit doing it at the upper rate tax threshold is the most sensible option cos then it is cheaper to administer.  If they did it on a case by case basis it would probbaly cost more to put it into place and administer than they would save.
Croctacus
Right sorry...the title didn't make it clear....

I think it should probably be cut for some but not all....

Not all pensioners need it after all so they should lose it to enable those at the other end to keep it.
Croctacus
Reference:
It`s being cut for all pensioners.
this is really bad imo 

as far as I'm aware - anyone who gets cold weather payment (I do as I'm on ICB) not just pensioners, gets £10 for every 7 days the temperature goes under zero degrees   it doesn't actually work out to be that much hence the reason a lot of pensioners are still afraid to turn the heating up even though they get this.

Is it being taken off all people who get it or is this just been taken off pensioners?  If this is the case and just pensioners lose it, then surely it's age discrimination or will everyone else eventually lose it??
FM
Grr... at taking away winter fuel for pensioners...My niece's granda is 82 and lives in Fort William in the highlands.He obviously has far colder winters than folk in the South of England etc.Piss off Cameron!
kattymieoww
If both apply to earning over 44K I dont think these families  will suffer but to be fair not many pensioners earn over 44K most of them have retired,it will be interesting to know how much money you have coming into the house before they decide you are not entitled to heating allowance,my brother in law has turned 60yrs old when he went to apply for his bus pass he did not get it they told him to come back in october  he said he thinks the age is going to be upped to 65, I know we have to have cuts but I wish they would leave the pensioners alone and the less well off working families,I would  just like to add I have not applied for my bus pass and have not had a heating payment yet it should be this year, I know I can manage fine without both I dont have the attitude "Im alright Jack** I want to see the most vulnerable pensioners looked after by the state,I have my doubts they will be under the tories.. we will have to wait and see..
Marguerita
finally cutting the universal benefit to higher earners, a good move , should have been done years ago.in better times it would have been possible to channel the money saved back to the poorer families and increase  their child benefit, but times is hard.

has he announced if it's higher income  pensoiners that will have the fuel allowance cut or are we assuming it's every pensioner? 

if it's across the board then it's just plain callous.
jacksonb
Just been reading up a bit. It seems that the cold weather payments were for anyone 60 or over regardless of financial status. This is now being abolished and the age is being raised to 66 (and they're fighting to make that even higher).
Karma_
there are cold weather payments,depending on the temperatures over a period of days, to qulify it.

there is the winter fuel allowance which is universal for pensioners, any idea which he is talking about  , or is it both?
jacksonb
I agree but unfortunately that`s not the case Croc. It`s cut for all.
It`s a huge blow to those who live on a basic pension and can`t afford to heat their homes in winter. It`s a disgraceful decision.
Scotty
Reference:
It`s cut for all
Hi Scotty  to be honest I was not sure if it was a cut for all I did not think even the tories would go that far,I think they have to be very careful were all these cuts are going to be made and at the speed in they are doing it ie the pensioners, or we may see an uproar like we did when Maggie Thatcher first introduced the poll tax..
Marguerita
I don`t know the exact details about cold weather payments but from what I can remember the temperature has got to be below a certain degree for a certain period of time before they will allow the payment. It`s very difficult to calculate...therefore not much is applied for or paid out.
It`s purposefully confusing imo.
The abolished fuel payment is seperate from the cold weather payment.
Scotty
Reference:
I don`t know the exact details about cold weather payments but from what I can remember the temperature has got to be below a certain degree for a certain period of time before they will allow the payment. It`s very difficult to calculate...therefore not much is applied for or paid out. It`s purposefully confusing imo.
I've just asked the oracle that is mother and she states that it is called a cold weather payment and she receives it as a standard one off payment once a year. Should the temperature drop below a certain level then she/you/them get additional payments on top of the standard payment, and how much depends on how long the really cold weather goes on for.
Karma_
Cold weather payment is:

This year you will get £25 when the average temperature where you live is recorded as, or forecast to be, zero degrees Celsius or below over seven consecutive days during the period from 1 November to 31 March. Specified Meteorological Office weather stations are used to obtain this information. 


trouble is though it is often cold, it doesn't always go below zero for 7 consecutive days therefore, very little is paid out in cold weather payment 

winter fuel payment is much more over 60s £250 and over 80s £400.  I agree that pensioners who have good pension payouts don't need this but a lot of pensioners do genuinely live in poverty.  Is he trying to kill them off in order not to pay out both pensions and fuel allowance because that's what's gonna happen if it goes through 
FM
I have always thought that Child Benefit should be means tested. I knew people who were earning twice as much as me and my husband and giving it to their children as pocket money while me and my husband were using it to feed our kids.
longcat
Reference Karma_ Today at 09:33:
Mr Osborne said: "It's very hard to justify taxing people on much lower incomes in order to pay the child benefit to some of the better off in our society."
He confirmed the cut would hit homes with a single or two high earners. But families with two parents on more modest incomes - which might add up to over £44,000 - will keep the benefit.
He defended this by saying his plan was "the most straightforward" option - which avoided means testing.
Osborne's being a bit cagey here: the discepancy under his proposals is potentially huge.
What his plan means is that a household where one parent earns £45,000 - while the other doesn't work or is on minimum wage - will lose child benefit, while another household where both parents earn, say,  £43,000 (£86,000 in total) will still get child benefit. Hardly fair, surely?

The reason he gives for this is that he doesn't want to bring in means testing, but I have a feeling that this scheme will go through a few changes before it's implemented...
Eugene's Lair
Reference:
Pengy must face the wrath!



I just took it over the government website 

I'm gonna repeat this:  though it is often cold, it doesn't always go below zero for 7 consecutive days therefore, very little is paid out in cold weather payment 
FM
I have relayed this to mother. She frowned and faffed a bit, mumbled summink about "oh I don't know, it's one payment then another payment oh go and put kettle on", tutted and carried on doing her crossword
Karma_
to quote Mr Cameron, 'watch my lips we will not be touching the winter fuel payments'..... iceberg and tip springs to mind. I absolutely can't stand the bloke or his a&se licker, power hungry, drop all out beliefs side kick of a partner Clegg. In it together my foot, no Condem are not, the poorest in society will be worse off once again.
Dame_Ann_Average

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