That's pure BS.  Field has been deselected by his local party for voting to prop up May's government.  

Field even nominated Corbyn for the Labour leadership. So if he was so concerned about Corbyn's "antisemite" conduct, why nominate him?

Field's now playing the antisemitism card because he's jumped before he was pushed by his local party who objected to him voting to prop up May's government.

Field is a disgrace, a liar and a scumbag.  He should have crossed the floor to be with other like minded Tories but knew he'd lose his seat if he wore a Tory rosette. 

Field has been poncing off the Labour Party for years.  Good riddance to bad rubbish.  The Labour voters of Birkenhead have been poorly served by such right wing ****!

I always liked him ....seemed like a genuine guy 

He's never been a Socialist, he's voted with the Tories on numerous occasions and wanted to bring in health insurance. 

I have been a member of the Labour party for many years apart from leaving under Blair, I had never heard of antisemitism being a problem and I have never heard any antisemitic comments from either members or supporters. I know hundreds of people like me are  at the allegations. I've not seen one iota of proof about any member being antisemitic. 

In 2016/17 there was 70 reported cases with in the labour party and most of those were criticizing Netanyahu  out of 810, 000 members which is a tiny fraction and not a problem because most of those complaints were against Netanyahu's government .....that is not being antisemitic.

I hate Trump, I criticize him daily, I am not anti American. I hate the Tories, I don't hate Tory voters...it's not rocket science.

The Tories haven't accepted the definition in any form, the guy who wrote the definition said there was nothing wrong with Labours amendment...we know who is behind this campaign, we know 80 % of the media are not going to let it drop and the fear is, using lie against a race is dangerous.... The Country is going to hell in a hand cart, important matters are not being reported because of a right wing media and that's not democratic at all. 

I think I’d rather a politician who voted with his conscience ...rather than simply towing the party line ..

Baz posted:

I always liked him ....seemed like a genuine guy 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

... I had never heard of antisemitism being a problem and I have never heard any antisemitic comments from either members or supporters.

 

To quote Jo Cox ... “ we are far more united than the things that divide us”

Baz posted:

I think I’d rather a politician who voted with his conscience ...rather than simply towing the party line ..

Well parties exist so that like minded people gather and vote like-mindedly for the same broad objective because they support more or less the same principles.  Ukip wouldn't allow an EU cheerleader into Ukip.     If his 'conscience' is a Tory 'conscience' then he should wear the Tory rosette and campaign for Tory values in his seat.

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

He's never been a Socialist, he's voted with the Tories on numerous occasions and wanted to bring in health insurance. 

 

I have been a member of the Labour party for many years apart from leaving under Blair, I had never heard of antisemitism being a problem and I have never heard any antisemitic comments from either members or supporters. I know hundreds of people like me are  at the allegations. I've not seen one iota of proof about any member being antisemitic. 

In 2016/17 there was 70 reported cases with in the labour party and most of those were criticizing Netanyahu  out of 810, 000 members which is a tiny fraction and not a problem because most of those complaints were against Netanyahu's government .....that is not being antisemitic.

 

I hate Trump, I criticize him daily, I am not anti American. I hate the Tories, I don't hate Tory voters...it's not rocket science.

 

The Tories haven't accepted the definition in any form, the guy who wrote the definition said there was nothing wrong with Labours amendment...we know who is behind this campaign, we know 80 % of the media are not going to let it drop and the fear is, using lie against a race is dangerous.... The Country is going to hell in a hand cart, important matters are not being reported because of a right wing media and that's not democratic at all. 

Dame Ann Average - you are an absolute legend!  I couldn't express myself better than you've just done!

Carnelian posted:

Baz posted:

I think I’d rather a politician who voted with his conscience ...rather than simply towing the party line ..

Well parties exist so that like minded people gather and vote like-mindedly for the same broad objective because they support more or less the same principles.  Ukip wouldn't allow an EU cheerleader into Ukip.     If his 'conscience' is a Tory 'conscience' then he should wear the Tory rosette and campaign for Tory values in his seat.

Well personally I’d much rather ...and trust more....a politician who didn’t simply tow a party line , even when they disagreed with it .....than politicians who ditched their consciences in order to be seen as a faithful party member ....and thereby protect their job . In fact , wasn’t that what people liked about Corbyn .....I applaud that , I just don’t happen to agree with the things he stands for 

Baz posted:

Carnelian posted:

Baz posted:

I think I’d rather a politician who voted with his conscience ...rather than simply towing the party line ..

Well parties exist so that like minded people gather and vote like-mindedly for the same broad objective because they support more or less the same principles.  Ukip wouldn't allow an EU cheerleader into Ukip.     If his 'conscience' is a Tory 'conscience' then he should wear the Tory rosette and campaign for Tory values in his seat.

Well personally I’d much rather ...and trust more....a politician who didn’t simply tow a party line , even when they disagreed with it .....than politicians who ditched their consciences in order to be seen as a faithful party member ....and thereby protect their job . In fact , wasn’t that what people liked about Corbyn .....I applaud that , I just don’t happen to agree with the things he stands for 

A fairer world for all? 

Sprout posted:

Baz posted:

Carnelian posted:

Baz posted:

I think I’d rather a politician who voted with his conscience ...rather than simply towing the party line ..

Well parties exist so that like minded people gather and vote like-mindedly for the same broad objective because they support more or less the same principles.  Ukip wouldn't allow an EU cheerleader into Ukip.     If his 'conscience' is a Tory 'conscience' then he should wear the Tory rosette and campaign for Tory values in his seat.

Well personally I’d much rather ...and trust more....a politician who didn’t simply tow a party line , even when they disagreed with it .....than politicians who ditched their consciences in order to be seen as a faithful party member ....and thereby protect their job . In fact , wasn’t that what people liked about Corbyn .....I applaud that , I just don’t happen to agree with the things he stands for 

A fairer world for all? 

I don’t see him in that light I’m afraid Sprout .....and it depends on how you define * for all * 

Baz posted:

Sprout posted:

A fairer world for all? 

I don’t see him in that light I’m afraid Sprout .....and it depends on how you define * for all * 

Exactly what I said.... for all. And it'll never be fair with your lot in 

Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Whip on over 600 occasions and is lauded as a man of principle.

Frank Field gets castigated for doing the same.

Some serious double standards afoot, IMO. 

BTW, am I the only one to keep reading this thread as “Frank Ifield has resigned.....” 

The problem is Yogi, he's not resigned over antisemitism because there isn't any...he's resigned because his own CLP voted no confidence in him weeks back and he would not be reselected again. 

A handful of right wing MP's are throwing all sorts of slurs around, there is only one ultimate goal and that is for the Party to stay a Blairite party. 

Surely the goal of the opposition is to get into government, four Friends of Israel voted with the government over Brexit which would probably be the downfall of Theresa May and a possible General Election...that is unforgivable in my book.

 This isn't the first time Field was deselected, he advised voters to vote Lib dem in a Liverpool constituency in 1989 (I think) it's against party rules. MP's are there to serve their constituency and he would have been a goner at the next election... He's a Liverpool MP and the Sun is banned in Liverpool, Mr Field thought it would be a good idea to write a column in the Sun, he's done everything he can to ignore his constituents. 

Yogi19 posted:

Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Whip on over 600 occasions and is lauded as a man of principle.

Frank Field gets castigated for doing the same.

Some serious double standards afoot, IMO. 

 

BTW, am I the only one to keep reading this thread as “Frank Ifield has resigned.....” 

Not until you said it , but now .....

Can someone please tell me why the Labour Party does not adopt the international definition of Anti-Semitism? 

Baz posted:

Yogi19 posted:

Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Whip on over 600 occasions and is lauded as a man of principle.

Frank Field gets castigated for doing the same.

Some serious double standards afoot, IMO. 

 

BTW, am I the only one to keep reading this thread as “Frank Ifield has resigned.....” 

Not until you said it , but now .....

😂😂😂

Having read some of the bile spewed by so called party members ,I'm not speechless, but everything I could say wouldn't be repeatable in polite company

Moonie posted:

Can someone please tell me why the Labour Party does not adopt the international definition of Anti-Semitism? 

Their argument seems to be that adopting it would mean that you couldn't criticise the state of Israel

Baz posted:

Yogi19 posted:

Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Whip on over 600 occasions and is lauded as a man of principle.

Frank Field gets castigated for doing the same.

Some serious double standards afoot, IMO. 

 

BTW, am I the only one to keep reading this thread as “Frank Ifield has resigned.....” 

Not until you said it , but now .....

😂😂😂😂😂😂

Kaytee posted:

Moonie posted:

Can someone please tell me why the Labour Party does not adopt the international definition of Anti-Semitism? 

Their argument seems to be that adopting it would mean that you couldn't criticise the state of Israel

Thanks Kaytee 

I wonder if other party’s have adopted this international definition of Anti-Semitism?

Moonie posted:

Kaytee posted:

Moonie posted:

Can someone please tell me why the Labour Party does not adopt the international definition of Anti-Semitism? 

Their argument seems to be that adopting it would mean that you couldn't criticise the state of Israel

Thanks Kaytee 

I wonder if other party’s have adopted this international definition of Anti-Semitism?

I’m not sure Moonie ...but I think things have been made worse because of JCs overt support for the Palestinians...together with some gaffs ...which have muddied the waters and made the non adoption at least appear anti Semitic ....

Everyone is all over this "story" in the media - relentless. Makes you wonder with the worst Government of all time in power. Let's see if Johnson's takeover attempt shifts it.

Moonie posted:

Thanks Kaytee 

I wonder if other party’s have adopted this international definition of Anti-Semitism?

none have Moonie, just Labour with the  amendments that people can criticize the Israel government without it being antisemitic unless it's deemed to be so 

LBC won't give it a rest and we all know who owns them.

tuco posted:

Everyone is all over this "story" in the media - relentless. Makes you wonder with the worst Government of all time in power. Let's see if Johnson's takeover attempt shifts it.

all the right wing are over this story and the right wing press lovely 

Frankly fed up

I am a newly elected Labour councillor who is Jewish, in a ward bordering Birkenhead. Frank Field MP chose to use antisemitism as his excuse to resign from the Labour whip. I am frankly fed up of anti-Jewish racism being used as a political weapon to attack Labour.

Since Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader a few years ago, my lived Jewish experience is a ‘broad church’ Labour Party showing solidarity and support to the many as well as the Jews.

More than 100 members from all wings of Wirral Labour Party worked together to elect me, in our successful local by-election this month. We spoke with over 2,100 residents and I heard no-one raise the issue of antisemitism.

Unlike Frank Field, my constituents’ highest priority is ending cruel Conservative government cuts to services we all rely on. The New Ferry part of my ward was devastated by a huge explosion in March last year and the government’s response is shockingly pathetic.

Cllr Jo Bird
Labour councillor for Brombrough and New Ferry

Baz posted:

I’m not sure Moonie ...but I think things have been made worse because of JCs overt support for the Palestinians...together with some gaffs ...which have muddied the waters and made the non adoption at least appear anti Semitic ....

snipers killing children day in and day out,  ...someone needs to support them. I remember Thatcher with her bestie Pinochet, it wasn't slapped on every newspaper day after day. Theresa May kneeling to the Saudi King, it all depends of which side you support really. I would just like a unbiased media, we will never have that whilst most of them are tax avoiders and the last thing they want is a Corbyn government to make them pay up. 

tuco posted:

Everyone is all over this "story" in the media - relentless. Makes you wonder with the worst Government of all time in power. Let's see if Johnson's takeover attempt shifts it.

I went shopping up the street earlier this afternoon and was looking at all the newspaper headlines on the stands. The Daily Fail reckons she's rumbled his attempt. Well, if she's only just rumbled it now.........

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Moonie posted:

Thanks Kaytee 

I wonder if other party’s have adopted this international definition of Anti-Semitism?

 

none have Moonie, just Labour with the  amendments that people can criticize the Israel government without it being antisemitic unless it's deemed to be so 

I don't care about religion at the best of times, but have criticised the Israeli government many times...In my mind anti Semiticism is not being anti Jewish, but most people don't seem to think that way.BTW, I have also criticised the other side but that hasn't been considered anti Moslem

Make no bones, this is another coordinate attack from the right and media for a third coup. Isn't it odd. No-one gave a shit about antisemitism before Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader...except Jeremy Corbyn. His mother fought for Jews on Cable Street, he organized a counter rally when the BNP were marching against Jews in 1979, In 2010 he asked for a debate in parliament to help Syrian Jews get a safe passage out of Syria...if you can't see what all this is about you never will. 

Kaytee posted:

I don't care about religion at the best of times, but have criticised the Israeli government many times...In my mind anti Semiticism is not being anti Jewish, but most people don't seem to think that way.BTW, I have also criticised the other side but that hasn't been considered anti Moslem

me either Kaytee, there is a massive difference criticizing a government systematically killing people who can't fight back and I too have criticized Hamas who were utterly evil in their day.  Criticizing Netanyahu  does not mean people are criticizing the whole of the race.   

and there you go, Margaret Hodge confirmed it... this afternoon. Jeez, you would have to have no brain cells to see what is going on  and that is why the membership has risen yet again over the last couple of weeks. 

Only this morning, I argued, not terribly originally, but vigorously I hope, that Labour’s summer crisis was about two issues, overthrowing Corbyn and suppressing debate on Palestine. Just hours later, I should thank Margaret Hodge for clarifying the matter perfectly.
At the Jewish Labour Movement conference she said that even if Labour’s NEC accepted the IHRA and all its examples in full it would not be enough. 
“The problem is that he is the problem. The party is bigger than Corbyn. Our party has been around for over 100 years, Corbyn has only been there for three – three damaging years.”
Now, hold that thought. Three damaging years that saw Labour add three million votes to Ed Miliband’s performance in the previous General Election, that saw a twelve-point shift in Labour’s direction, that saw Labour wipe out May’s majority and confound the Hampstead chatterati. He spoke for large sections of the working class and the young and Labour’s fortunes revived and have not fallen back since, despite an intense campaign of misrepresentation and smear. 
Corbyn says clearly that he: “will not tolerate antisemitism in any form anywhere in our society or in our party.” He bends over backwards to accommodate the right in the party and any disciplinary action against Hodge for quite unacceptable behaviour is quashed.
So what was Margaret Hodge saying two years ago before the anti-semitism issue hit the media? She was supporting a vote of no confidence, of course. Opponent then and opponent now, she will not be satisfied with any other outcome than Corbyn’s fall and the routing of the Left.

They've all got an angle Dame   

It's a game from an AGA for the most influential.

tuco posted:

They've all got an angle Dame   

 

It's a game from an AGA for the most influential.

results are out tomorrow in the NEC election..if it's a Corbyn clean sweep expect the next headline to include, Murder, Granny, Hitler's cousin and Rasputin's son 

Baz posted:

Carnelian posted:

Baz posted:

I think I’d rather a politician who voted with his conscience ...rather than simply towing the party line ..

Well parties exist so that like minded people gather and vote like-mindedly for the same broad objective because they support more or less the same principles.  Ukip wouldn't allow an EU cheerleader into Ukip.     If his 'conscience' is a Tory 'conscience' then he should wear the Tory rosette and campaign for Tory values in his seat.

Well personally I’d much rather ...and trust more....a politician who didn’t simply tow a party line , even when they disagreed with it .....than politicians who ditched their consciences in order to be seen as a faithful party member ....and thereby protect their job . In fact , wasn’t that what people liked about Corbyn .....I applaud that , I just don’t happen to agree with the things he stands for 

What if that party member was a white supremacist and their values were state approved favouritism for whites?  Or someone who once proposed building secure units for 'problem families' under a Birkenhead motorway?  Like Frank Field suggested? 

Or someone who greatly admired Thatcher despite his idol telling the world that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist and his idol being a friend of Pinochet even though Pinochet's regime used bestial rape as a weapon against his political enemies?  

Free speech and a broad church is fine but when your broad church is so 'broad' it includes card carrying Thatcherites, puppets of the US Military Industrial Complex/fundie Christians and Likud Zionists then IMO, your church is so broad it stands as a promoter of the very values that it was set up to oppose.

This country has gone - let's face it.

There is no fix.

It's Band-Aids with seeping blood into the middle distance.

Moonie posted:

Can someone please tell me why the Labour Party does not adopt the international definition of Anti-Semitism? 

Happy to!  Ukip and I think the Tories haven't either.  Not that they're getting the flack for it.  Seems it's only open season on Labour.  Agenda?  I think so!

The definition includes a clause were Israel should not be compared to Nazis for its policies.  So if Isreali solidiers mow down civilian Palestinian protesters - as they have - it is 'antisemite' to draw comparisons with the Nazis.   Comparing the policy of Israel to Nazi Germany is shouted down as antisemitic.  Even though European (mostly culturally Christian) murdered 8 million Jews.  It seems the Palistinans are the sacrificial lambs for Nazi Germany's atrocities.

Labour reject this, as does Ukip (but the DM, Sun, Star, Telegraph, Express etc like Ukip) .  The Tories reject this also but despite being the government, get no flack

The definition is a suppression of free speech that makes Israel unique in the world, that no matter what it does with regard to human rights abuses it must not be compared to the Nazis.  

Correct. No one has   

You could go to town but it's pointless.

And don't ask a cabbie - they're all £50k plus tax exempt in small towns.

Artistic licence but they are masters of satire.

And they all holiday outwith the Med.