It'll help if he's got passed teething Lee 

Exactly, but she's a woman, so she must be manipulating him!

 She should realise what he is doing and get shot.

Assassination by firing squad seems a bit harsh.  A bit 

She is manipulating him, just because you don't agree doesn't mean she isn't. Btw, I think I burnt my bra at least a decade before you so don't start with the women's lib. In this case I believe in it when I see a truthful and honest woman, not a person like Josie.

 Loads gun. 

  Is it to late to Burn mine?

Yes, no impact now. Sorry, times change.

*Puts Bra back on*

My underpants were on fire yesterday.  Does that have any significance? 

 Liar Liar pants on fire.

More orders from you?

I'll discuss what I want to discuss, thanks.

Anyone with half a brain can see that she has developed feelings for him, due to mixed signals on his part. If you assume that she is lying, or being in any way dishonest about it, then I'll assume that it's due to your hatred of her, clouding your judgment.

I'm sorry blizzie, but I can't see where I've given any orders and I haven't asked you not to discuss anything. You have a different idea of her from me, but just as you feel you have the right to invade every possible thread with your hatred of Ben, I can voice my opinion of Josie. Is that alright now madam?

Sounds like an order, to me!

The vitriol aimed at Josie on this forum, for imagined manipulation and dishonesty, as well as her weight and personal habits etc. does not compare to the amount of criticism Ben is receiving from the few people on here who see his faults and dare to comment on them.

BTW, where did I mention Ben in my post?

That's what I see too and that she's worried that she's making a fool of herself

Which is why, imho I think she is genuinely worried that she's making a narse of herself,  rather than that she is in machiavellian overdrive as most on here seem to think. If I'm right(???) that would also explain the 'Me, me, me' response to JJ's little dramatic outburst,  v conveniently staged by him at a time when just about every hm was nearby, for maximum effect and hence maximum cringe factor for her

Which she is doing.  All of her own making though.

What I don't get 'though LL is how it can be 'both ways' Either she has genuine feelings that aren't reciprocated in the luurve sense or she's being manipulative?

My opinion is highly coloured by the fact that I cannot stand the sight of her

Super, I think you can be "in love" and also be manipulative.  I just feel she enjoys getting her own way, she enjoys making him squirm and enjoys all the attention he then gives her when he thinks he has upset her.  Maybe, it's part of her insecurities as to why she acts that way, similar to his insecurities.  I just don't think it is a particularly attractive trait and if she is serious about the relationship, she may find she loses it.

That was exactly what she was doing and why she was saying "Can we just stop talking about it now?", outside the diary room.
She realises how it's coming across, even if others in the house are telling her she  hasn't done anything wrong and is being given mixed signals.

She just wanted the ground to swallow her up and I don't blame her.

I believe that in Josie's vid before she went into the house, she said something along the lines of wanting every bloke to fancy her in there and that she wouldn't like it if she wasn't top cat in there...seems true enough

I don't think it's either or soopes. Obviously she feels something for him, otherwise why make all this fuss. Can you imagine her and him on the outside? Could she get away with having him on a leash the way she does in the house? No. The whole thing is a complete nonsense. Her hormones are raging with unrequited sex and he, well, I don't really know what to think about him. It ain't love on either side, whatever.

But she's the one who has to give him attention, not the other way round. It's not as if she is the one having histrionics about the situation.

She's also the one squirming with embarrassment about it. He's happy to carry on snuggling his 'sister' in bed, knowing she wants more.

 spot on.

Not so blizzie.  He follows her around the place like a little lap dog and comes when she calls him.  She is calling the tunes and holds the leash - reins him in when she wants.

Can I have a kiss? Can I have a cuddle? Can I take over the whole of your time in this house?

Thye are both as bad as each other and need their heads knocking together.

Point in case after the falling out. She leaves to go to the kitchen, he follows. She leaves to go to the bathroom, he follows. She goes into the toilet, he waits. She comes out and leaves the bathroom despite him pleading to listen to him. Pathetic behaviour from any person, man or woman.

I used to think that EW, but she's now got him by the short and curlies and isn't letting go. One of them has to leave for this programme to have any enjoyment at all.

I said in another thread that she is more like his mother.  Scolds him when she thinks he has done wrong.  Praises him when she thinks he has done good.  Lets him out to play with his mates, when it suits her.  Even picks his nose for him.

He seems to crave this.

I Will agree with the second sentence Cologne. Definately.

He follows her because he wants her attention and she gets the blame? .

How on earth does that disagree with my point?

see i see it differently........they have a row he goes to the d/r sobbing he can't cope or stay there if josie doesn't talk to him...they bring her in.she sees how 'upset' he is.she backs down............the other night......she said she didn't want to sleep with him anymore..he breaks the fire exit door and goes.then he comes back.and she relents again cos she doesn't want him to be upset...then he told her.'i'm not moving beds'.she said 'ok'.he says.'you're not either'..........he turns on the tears and has these 'breakdowns' cos he knows that's the way to control her

Because you think he's holding her strings when in reality, she's holding his.

I love it that we see the same situation so differently

That's how I see it too.....