One last thing on democracy .. why did the House of Commons block the rights of 16 and 17 year olds to vote. To defeat the end of democracy. So older people could have what they want while dressing it up as for the good of the youth who want the oposite and who will have to live with the betrayal.
Sprout posted:Baz posted:But what right have we to judge that Sprout ? People who voted had obviously thought about which way to vote .....just because someone comes to a different conclusion , for whatever reason , doesn't give us the right to say their vote /intelligence/ principles/ reasons .....whatever you want to call it ....carry less weight than our own ?
Well, I disagree with that, not everyone did but there you go.
But they had to have ......otherwise they would have put an X in both boxes 
What you are saying is that they didn't think about it as much a you would wish ....but it doesn't work that way 
Kaffs posted:One last thing on democracy .. why did the House of Commons block the rights of 16 and 17 year olds to vote. To defeat the end of democracy. So older people could have what they want while dressing it up as for the good of the youth who want the oposite and who will have to live with the betrayal.
I am not even going to answer that Kaffs , cos a) I am tired of being classed as the bad guy cos I am old and exercised my rights 
And secondly , because I know a lot of these awful baby boomers who voted Remain ....including the one sitting just across from me now 
Sprout posted:http://www.msn.com/en-gb/video...m-fallout/vi-AAhAH82
The facts were always there dear, if only you'd decided to go and search them out
Shamefully bumping my own post 
Sprout posted:Sprout posted:http://www.msn.com/en-gb/video...m-fallout/vi-AAhAH82
The facts were always there dear, if only you'd decided to go and search them out
Shamefully bumping my own post
Yeah, but we kept on being told that info was being sent to every household giving us the Facts, by the time some people realised this wasn't the case it may have been too late to try and winkle out the necessary info themselves
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Sprout posted:Sprout posted:http://www.msn.com/en-gb/video...m-fallout/vi-AAhAH82
The facts were always there dear, if only you'd decided to go and search them out
Shamefully bumping my own post
Yeah, but we kept on being told that info was being sent to every household giving us the Facts, by the time some people realised this wasn't the case it may have been too late to try and winkle out the necessary info themselves
Fluffs, everyone's had from February
Moonie posted:A seventh Labour shadow minister has just resigned
They were alright to work with him before the election. Turncoats, I say
Just because he's a 'different kind' of leader, they can't handle it
Edit....I meant the EU vote where I said election
Sprout posted:Sprout posted:http://www.msn.com/en-gb/video...m-fallout/vi-AAhAH82
The facts were always there dear, if only you'd decided to go and search them out
Shamefully bumping my own post
shameful
Sprout posted:Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Sprout posted:Sprout posted:http://www.msn.com/en-gb/video...m-fallout/vi-AAhAH82
The facts were always there dear, if only you'd decided to go and search them out
Shamefully bumping my own post
Yeah, but we kept on being told that info was being sent to every household giving us the Facts, by the time some people realised this wasn't the case it may have been too late to try and winkle out the necessary info themselves
Fluffs, everyone's had from February
No, I didn't get the promised leaflet until sometime in May and it wasn't FACTS it was just a comparison of what both sides were saying about 'cherry picked' issues, not laying out facts about the EU and why we were in it/had joined it in the first place. REAL facts, not various people's opinions, suppositions and theoretical forecasts!
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Sprout posted:Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Sprout posted:Sprout posted:http://www.msn.com/en-gb/video...m-fallout/vi-AAhAH82
The facts were always there dear, if only you'd decided to go and search them out
Shamefully bumping my own post
Yeah, but we kept on being told that info was being sent to every household giving us the Facts, by the time some people realised this wasn't the case it may have been too late to try and winkle out the necessary info themselves
Fluffs, everyone's had from February
No, I didn't get the promised leaflet until sometime in May and it wasn't FACTS it was just a comparison of what both sides were saying about 'cherry picked' issues, not laying out facts about the EU and why we were in it/had joined it in the first place. REAL facts, not various people's opinions, suppositions and theoretical forecasts!
Ditto on all counts EFFT 
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:No, I didn't get the promised leaflet until sometime in May and it wasn't FACTS it was just a comparison of what both sides were saying about 'cherry picked' issues, not laying out facts about the EU and why we were in it/had joined it in the first place. REAL facts, not various people's opinions, suppositions and theoretical forecasts!
Which is why people could've searched them for themselves
Moonie posted:We never do get the "real facts" about referenda/general elections/local elections.
Which is why the Tories were voted back in
Sprout posted:Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:No, I didn't get the promised leaflet until sometime in May and it wasn't FACTS it was just a comparison of what both sides were saying about 'cherry picked' issues, not laying out facts about the EU and why we were in it/had joined it in the first place. REAL facts, not various people's opinions, suppositions and theoretical forecasts!
Which is why people could've searched them for themselves
But not everyone has the wherewithal , time , or inclination to do that Sprout .....and even if they do they are still reading stuff that someone else has written .....I bet you didn't read all the EU statutes etc. .....or did you ?
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:No, I didn't get the promised leaflet until sometime in May and it wasn't FACTS it was just a comparison of what both sides were saying about 'cherry picked' issues, not laying out facts about the EU and why we were in it/had joined it in the first place. REAL facts, not various people's opinions, suppositions and theoretical forecasts!
Which is why people could've searched them for themselves
But not everyone has the wherewithal , time , or inclination to do that Sprout .....and even if they do they are still reading stuff that someone else has written .....I bet you didn't read all the EU statutes etc. .....or did you ?
But on something as important as this they should've. No, you're right, I didn't read all but I did look at somethings and voted for the future
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Moonie posted:We never do get the "real facts" about referenda/general elections/local elections.
Which is why the Tories were voted back in
And why we were stuck with Blair for so long
I don't agree with that either, he was too much in the Tory's pockets in my opinion
If you get told it's being laid out on a plate for you, the majority of people are going to wait for that plate!
I love this quote from FB today
There seems to be a move to make Brexit an agist conflict....they point out that Britains youth voted us in with a 2/3 majority in 1975...but that Britains elderly voted us out this week effectively shafting the youth. What they don't say is that those elderly were the enthusiastic youth of 1975, now armed to the teeth with 41 years worth of hindsight.
I don't think Johnson etc. wanted a Leave victory either. He looked more shell-shocked than Cameron! Probably just wanted a very narrow Remain win and hope that would be enough to secure a better deal from the EU.
Cameron's left them to sort out the mess and they don't appear to have the faintest idea what they've let themselves (and the country) in for.
In today's paper someone quoted the following observation from a Facebook contributor:
'The older generation voting to leave the EU is the same as your mate picking the film and then leaving 20 minutes in'
This is not a dig at anyone in this thread but something occured to me today.
In so many cultures, older people are respected for the wisdom that tends to come with age and life experience but in the UK today, it seems our older citizens are either being derided for voting 'selfishly/stupidly', or their views are being dismissed as irrelevant because 'they might not be here much longer'.
What a sad state of affairs.
Well said Yogi 
Yogi19 posted:This is not a dig at anyone in this thread but something occured to me today.
In so many cultures, older people are respected for the wisdom that tends to come with age and life experience but in the UK today, it seems our older citizens are either being derided for voting 'selfishly/stupidly', or their views are being dismissed as irrelevant because 'they might not be here much longer'.
What a sad state of affairs.
My mum is 91 and we are both in our sixties. Obviously we all voted in and so did her friends and ours.
i think there is a bit more to it than age! I thought it more to do with education and background. It really was surprising to find that a lot of people didn't understand the concept of the EC or the financial of market aspects, the important things. It was all about immigration! Thus we had Nissan workers for example voting out. You couldn't make it up!
Garage Joe posted:Yogi19 posted:This is not a dig at anyone in this thread but something occured to me today.
In so many cultures, older people are respected for the wisdom that tends to come with age and life experience but in the UK today, it seems our older citizens are either being derided for voting 'selfishly/stupidly', or their views are being dismissed as irrelevant because 'they might not be here much longer'.
What a sad state of affairs.
My mum is 91 and we are both in our sixties. Obviously we all voted in and so did her friends and ours.
i think there is a bit more to it than age! I thought it more to do with education and background. It really was surprising to find that a lot of people didn't understand the concept of the EC or the financial of market aspects, the important things. It was all about immigration! Thus we had Nissan workers for example voting out. You couldn't make it up!
I don't think you can even attribute it to education GJ ....I am what would be termed * highly educated * ....but voted out I think the trouble with all this post referendum analysis is people making sweeping generalizations in order to make their point ....truth is both camps were probably made up of all the various components of society ....but the bottom line is no one actually knows .
Interesting reading...
"In November, the situation may have totally changed. According to polls, a million vote leavers appear to have changed their mind, that could be five million by the November."
Which bears out my reasoning that a lot of people didn't think about what they were voting for and what we would lose
Sprout posted:"In November, the situation may have totally changed. According to polls, a million vote leavers appear to have changed their mind, that could be five million by the November."
Which bears out my reasoning that a lot of people didn't think about what they were voting for and what we would lose
Depends on where you got the info from Sprout ? Bit like the petition .....which has already had ten of thousands of names removed cos of fraud
Baz posted:Sprout posted:"In November, the situation may have totally changed. According to polls, a million vote leavers appear to have changed their mind, that could be five million by the November."
Which bears out my reasoning that a lot of people didn't think about what they were voting for and what we would lose
Depends on where you got the info from Sprout ?
Sweet's link, although I forgot to link to it myself Tens of thousands....it was up to 3 mill anyway....drop in the ocean just shows the consensus of opinion
Moonie posted:You can't keep having referenda just because you don't agree with the result. What sort of democracy is that?
I don't agree with the result.......when people didn't know what they were voting for
Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:"In November, the situation may have totally changed. According to polls, a million vote leavers appear to have changed their mind, that could be five million by the November."
Which bears out my reasoning that a lot of people didn't think about what they were voting for and what we would lose
Depends on where you got the info from Sprout ?
Sweet's link, although I forgot to link to it myself
They haven't finished checking it yet They reckon Bots have been used ....