Moonie posted:Leaves thread in
Awww sorry Moonie... you might have to move into a safe house now! 
~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was shocked at the outcome of the referendum, but I'm equally as shocked at the levels of aggression and hatred that's been occuring ever since the announcement. We can't change what has happened but we can change how we react and treat each other. I'm grateful for the experiences & wisdom shared by our older generations, and regardless of agreeing with each other's decisions or not, we should all respect that these votes have been cast with freedom of choice.
~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was shocked at the outcome of the referendum, but I'm equally as shocked at the levels of aggression and hatred that's been occuring ever since the announcement. We can't change what has happened but we can change how we react and treat each other. I'm grateful for the experiences & wisdom shared by our older generations, and regardless of agreeing with each other's decisions or not, we should all respect that these votes have been cast with freedom of choice.
Sweet, I see what you're saying, and believe me, I don't want to cause an uproar over it, but when you see peeps (like I have) voting, and not knowing what they're voting for kinda wrankles with me It feels like an invalid outcome to me 
Roger the Alien posted:Moonie posted:Leaves thread in
Awww sorry Moonie... you might have to move into a safe house now!
Apologies for hijacking this thread b.t.w. 
It was all getting a bit heated. Now its getting heated but in a different way
Sprout posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was shocked at the outcome of the referendum, but I'm equally as shocked at the levels of aggression and hatred that's been occuring ever since the announcement. We can't change what has happened but we can change how we react and treat each other. I'm grateful for the experiences & wisdom shared by our older generations, and regardless of agreeing with each other's decisions or not, we should all respect that these votes have been cast with freedom of choice.
Sweet, I see what you're saying, and believe me, I don't want to cause an uproar over it, but when you see peeps (like I have) voting, and not knowing what they're voting for kinda wrankles with me
But nowhere does it say you can only vote if you are totally au fait Sprout .....a vote , is a vote , is a vote . Happens every election , with people ignoring the issues and voting a certain way just cos they ( or their parents ) have always done .
Sprout posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was shocked at the outcome of the referendum, but I'm equally as shocked at the levels of aggression and hatred that's been occuring ever since the announcement. We can't change what has happened but we can change how we react and treat each other. I'm grateful for the experiences & wisdom shared by our older generations, and regardless of agreeing with each other's decisions or not, we should all respect that these votes have been cast with freedom of choice.
Sweet, I see what you're saying, and believe me, I don't want to cause an uproar over it, but when you see peeps (like I have) voting, and not knowing what they're voting for kinda wrankles with me
That point I do understand Sprouty and likewise, I know many many people who didn't vote because they simply aren't interested in politics
Moonie posted:Roger the Alien posted:Moonie posted:Leaves thread in
Awww sorry Moonie... you might have to move into a safe house now!
Moonie posted:Roger the Alien posted:Moonie posted:Leaves thread in
Awww sorry Moonie... you might have to move into a safe house now!
At least you can use your super powers to get away...
Baz posted:Sprout posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was shocked at the outcome of the referendum, but I'm equally as shocked at the levels of aggression and hatred that's been occuring ever since the announcement. We can't change what has happened but we can change how we react and treat each other. I'm grateful for the experiences & wisdom shared by our older generations, and regardless of agreeing with each other's decisions or not, we should all respect that these votes have been cast with freedom of choice.
Sweet, I see what you're saying, and believe me, I don't want to cause an uproar over it, but when you see peeps (like I have) voting, and not knowing what they're voting for kinda wrankles with me
But nowhere does it say you can only vote if you are totally au fait Sprout .....a vote , is a vote , is a vote . Happens every election , with people ignoring issues voting a certain way just cos they ( or their parents ) have always done .
Yes I agree with you Baz, I also have a problem with that. It's just a pity more people didn't look in to the facts more when they vote in any election
As you know....from the start, in this one I wanted out, but then I looked at things and weighed up things in my mind and totally changed my opinion 
Roger the Alien posted:Apologies for hijacking this thread b.t.w.
*fans self*
No apology needed, Rog. IMO, the hijack was a very welcome distraction.
Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was shocked at the outcome of the referendum, but I'm equally as shocked at the levels of aggression and hatred that's been occuring ever since the announcement. We can't change what has happened but we can change how we react and treat each other. I'm grateful for the experiences & wisdom shared by our older generations, and regardless of agreeing with each other's decisions or not, we should all respect that these votes have been cast with freedom of choice.
Sweet, I see what you're saying, and believe me, I don't want to cause an uproar over it, but when you see peeps (like I have) voting, and not knowing what they're voting for kinda wrankles with me
But nowhere does it say you can only vote if you are totally au fait Sprout .....a vote , is a vote , is a vote . Happens every election , with people ignoring issues voting a certain way just cos they ( or their parents ) have always done .
Yes I agree with you Baz, I also have a problem with that. It's just a pity more people didn't look in to the facts more when they vote in any election
As you know....from the start, in this one I wanted out, but then I looked at things and weighed up things in my mind and totally changed my opinion
And you have every right to do so Sprout .....that's my point exactly . We all had the right to vote the way we want , or not vote if that's your choice , without fear or favour ....
~Sweet Summer~ posted:Sprout posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was shocked at the outcome of the referendum, but I'm equally as shocked at the levels of aggression and hatred that's been occuring ever since the announcement. We can't change what has happened but we can change how we react and treat each other. I'm grateful for the experiences & wisdom shared by our older generations, and regardless of agreeing with each other's decisions or not, we should all respect that these votes have been cast with freedom of choice.
Sweet, I see what you're saying, and believe me, I don't want to cause an uproar over it, but when you see peeps (like I have) voting, and not knowing what they're voting for kinda wrankles with me
That point I do understand Sprouty
You see, it could've been a totally different outcome, but even if it wasn't I maybe would have accepted it a bit easier
Sprout posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:Sprout posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was shocked at the outcome of the referendum, but I'm equally as shocked at the levels of aggression and hatred that's been occuring ever since the announcement. We can't change what has happened but we can change how we react and treat each other. I'm grateful for the experiences & wisdom shared by our older generations, and regardless of agreeing with each other's decisions or not, we should all respect that these votes have been cast with freedom of choice.
Sweet, I see what you're saying, and believe me, I don't want to cause an uproar over it, but when you see peeps (like I have) voting, and not knowing what they're voting for kinda wrankles with me
That point I do understand Sprouty
You see, it could've been a totally different outcome, but even if it wasn't I maybe would have accepted it a bit easier
I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Hope. If extremely faint.
To back up Sprout's misgivings...
~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Maybe in the interests of the country we should have one, I dunno 
Like I say, I'll accept an out vote if it's a genuine decision
~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Makes a mockery of democracy IMO
Maybe in the interests of the country we should have one and vote remain. I feel as though our country has been stolen and I want it back.
Kaffs posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Hope. If extremely faint.
To back up Sprout's misgivings...
But do you think ALL those voting Remain truly knew what they were voting for either Kaffs ?
Baz posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Makes a mockery of democracy IMO
But Baz, when people are voting and they don't know what they're voting for?
Baz posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Makes a mockery of democracy IMO
I believe it's beyond democracy. We have to protect our economy.
Baz posted:Kaffs posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Hope. If extremely faint.
To back up Sprout's misgivings...
But do you think ALL those voting Remain truly knew what they were voting for either Kaffs ?
I can't say deffo, but at least I didn't dismiss it out of hand
Sprout posted:Baz posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Makes a mockery of democracy IMO
But Baz, when people are voting and they don't know what they're voting for?
See my question to Kaffs Sprout .....I'm sure lots of people on both sides didn't know what they were voting for .
Garage Joe posted:Baz posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Makes a mockery of democracy IMO
I believe it's beyond democracy. We have to protect our economy.
Then what was the point of even having a referendum GJ .....and would you have felt it was legitimate to have a rerun if the vote had gone the other way ?
Baz posted:Kaffs posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Hope. If extremely faint.
To back up Sprout's misgivings...
But do you think ALL those voting Remain truly knew what they were voting for either Kaffs ?
More so than those voting to leave. Sensible people who were unsure voted for the status quo - theu didn't vote 'tactically' to stick two fingers up at Cameron whilst not really believe they'd get what they voted for. in my opinion.
Baz posted:Garage Joe posted:Baz posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Makes a mockery of democracy IMO
I believe it's beyond democracy. We have to protect our economy.
Then what was the point of even having a referendum GJ .....and would you have felt it was legitimate to have a rerun if the vote had gone the other way ?
Seems to be that way for us Scots... and not forgetting the really big lie.. sorry 'mistake' about all the money that would go the NHS if we left...
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Makes a mockery of democracy IMO
But Baz, when people are voting and they don't know what they're voting for?
See my question to Kaffs Sprout .....I'm sure lots of people on both sides didn't know what they were voting for .
Maybe more peeps voted in that had looked into the consequenses (spelling) though Baz?
You yourself said you went with your gut instinct. How many more peeps did that?
Kaffs posted:Baz posted:Kaffs posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Hope. If extremely faint.
To back up Sprout's misgivings...
But do you think ALL those voting Remain truly knew what they were voting for either Kaffs ?
More so than those voting to leave. Sensible people who were unsure voted for the status quo - theu didn't vote 'tactically' to stick two fingers up at Cameron whilst not really believe they'd get what they voted for. in my opinion.
But you can't just give the vote to * sensible * people , can you ? Everyone of voting age has the right to vote ....
Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Makes a mockery of democracy IMO
But Baz, when people are voting and they don't know what they're voting for?
See my question to Kaffs Sprout .....I'm sure lots of people on both sides didn't know what they were voting for .
Maybe more peeps voted in that had looked into the consequenses (spelling) though Baz?
You yourself said you went with your gut instinct. How many more peeps did that?
But gut instinct is normally based on empirical knowledge ......and in my case 40 years of watching the political scene . And who are we to say people don't have a right to vote because we don't think they are taking it seriously enough .....
Baz posted:Kaffs posted:Baz posted:Kaffs posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Hope. If extremely faint.
To back up Sprout's misgivings...
But do you think ALL those voting Remain truly knew what they were voting for either Kaffs ?
More so than those voting to leave. Sensible people who were unsure voted for the status quo - theu didn't vote 'tactically' to stick two fingers up at Cameron whilst not really believe they'd get what they voted for. in my opinion.
But you can't just give the vote to * sensible * people , can you ? Everyone of voting age has the right to vote ....
Yes of course they do, but past elections (coupled with this one too) I have my doubts whether a lot of people voted with their heads
Baz posted:Kaffs posted:Baz posted:Kaffs posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Hope. If extremely faint.
To back up Sprout's misgivings...
But do you think ALL those voting Remain truly knew what they were voting for either Kaffs ?
More so than those voting to leave. Sensible people who were unsure voted for the status quo - theu didn't vote 'tactically' to stick two fingers up at Cameron whilst not really believe they'd get what they voted for. in my opinion.
But you can't just give the vote to * sensible * people , can you ? Everyone of voting age has the right to vote ....
Well, personally I think you should have to sit a test ... for voting and breeding.
Maybe we need a law that says television and media have to print retractions when they show / print liars. Oh wait... that would mean trusting Murdoch and his ilk
Kaffs posted:Baz posted:Kaffs posted:Baz posted:Kaffs posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Hope. If extremely faint.
To back up Sprout's misgivings...
But do you think ALL those voting Remain truly knew what they were voting for either Kaffs ?
More so than those voting to leave. Sensible people who were unsure voted for the status quo - theu didn't vote 'tactically' to stick two fingers up at Cameron whilst not really believe they'd get what they voted for. in my opinion.
But you can't just give the vote to * sensible * people , can you ? Everyone of voting age has the right to vote ....
Well, personally I think you should have to sit a test ... for voting and breeding.
I think someone already tried that
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Maybe more peeps voted in that had looked into the consequenses (spelling) though Baz?
You yourself said you went with your gut instinct. How many more peeps did that?
But gut instinct is normally based on empirical knowledge ......and in my case 40 years of watching the political scene . And who are we to say people don't have a right to vote because we don't think they are taking it seriously enough .....
That's my problem! Some aren't! And I say never let them near a polling booth again!
Sprout posted:Baz posted:Kaffs posted:Baz posted:Kaffs posted:~Sweet Summer~ posted:I was interested to hear on tonight's radio that the petition has over 2 million signatures now, and that some people are suggesting that parliament may debate overruling the decision anyway...
What's the general feeling about this?
Hope. If extremely faint.
To back up Sprout's misgivings...
But do you think ALL those voting Remain truly knew what they were voting for either Kaffs ?
More so than those voting to leave. Sensible people who were unsure voted for the status quo - theu didn't vote 'tactically' to stick two fingers up at Cameron whilst not really believe they'd get what they voted for. in my opinion.
But you can't just give the vote to * sensible * people , can you ? Everyone of voting age has the right to vote ....
Yes of course they do, but past elections (coupled with this one too) I have my doubts whether a lot of people voted with their heads
Maybe Sprout , I'm not saying you're wrong to think that , but I reiterate ....would you have still felt that had the vote gone the opposite way
Quoting isn't playing the game 
I don't know Baz, maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't. I don't think I'd be 'whooping it up' though like some have done.
Baz posted:Carnelian posted:Baz posted:Carnelian , for the record , if you read my posts properly , I never called you obnoxious , I said some of the views being expressed were obnoxious ....e.g. hoping that baby boomers lost their pension pots , calling Brexiters idiots , and traitors to their country etc. .....and I stand by that .
Why is it obnoxious when a load of affluent old people who enjoyed free education, low house prices which they've made huge profits on, social mobility, rising living standards voted to curb the life chances of young people and have imposed on 16 year olds something they'll have to live with for decades but couldn't vote for?
The younger generation just seem to have all the burdens and none of the goodies.
I do hope their pensions are hit. It would be karma for how they've thwarted life chances of the younger generation. Obviously there are poor pensioners and struggling pensioners and I certainly wouldn't wish a reversal on what meagre funds they have. I hope their lives improve, but sadly now the vicious market obsessed right are in change, they'll get hammered too. I don't hate the old at all, I just think the affluent old are being far too selfish. They have a reversal coming to them.
This government has been robbing the young to cater for their ageing affluent voter base. All the cuts have gone to the young while the freebies the affluent old enjoy, remained ring fenced.
I'm sorry, there needs to be some generational fairness because today's young won't have the pensions, the job security, the bricks and mortar equity that many of today's old enjoy.
*Affluent* old people are being selfish because they didn't vote for what you wanted ? Others are wrong because they are concerned about immigration ? Do you ever stop to think that maybe , just maybe , they have a different perspective because they ARE old , and have seen/experienced more than you have ? Or is that being patronising to young people
And for the record .....I AM old , but I have certainly never been affluent in my entire life ....and I DO have kids and 6 grandkids ....so am certainly NOT looking to knowingly scupper their chances .
I'm not a young person by any means. The fact IS that the older generations were much more pro-Brexit than the young people, yet it is the young who'll have to live with it for much longer. Sadly, by weight of numbers, the older Baby boomer affluent have nobbled the chance of young Britains to work in the single market. It is also a statistical fact (not just my opinion) that this government has ring fenced benefits for affluent pensioners while hacking into funding for the young poor.
It seems it's perfectly fine for people to resent immigrants for taking 'our jobs' but it's a big no no to resent the old for kicking opportunity away from the young! See the hypocrisy yet? Probably not!
You keep doing this really intellectually dishonest thing where you try to rubbish my point of view by saying "just because they don't agree with you". It really won't cut it. Of course they don't agree with me but if they're allowed an opinion, then so am I! If they were here they could argue their case. Maybe they are.
They were selfish because all they thought about were their own needs, they didn't think about the young who overwhelmingly wanted to remain, so they could maybe have access to single market European countries to work or even live.