Yogi19 posted:

Baz posted:

Carnelian posted:

velvet donkey posted:

Maybe they were concerned about European Rule.

If they weren't useful idiots, they'd be more concerned about a load of hard right zealots and racists calling the shots.

Useful I might be , idiot I ain't ! 

You certainly are no idiot, Baz.

 

My heart said out and my head said in. When it came down to the wire, I voted remain - and now I wish to goodness I hadn't, as Sturgeon is using it to push for another independence referendum.

 

I can't believe some of the comments in this thread.

We live in a democracy, with the freedom to vote for which ever side we believe is best for our country.

We may not get the result we want or think is best, but to come on here and spew such nasty vitriol, calling "leave" voters racists and traitors is disgusting - Carnelian, I am looking at you!

Sturgeon's totally right!  One of the things that was put to Scottish voters to persuade them to stay in their referendum was that an independent Scotland might not be able to join the EU.  Well now Scotland will be bounced out of the EU when it voted heavily to stay.  

Good luck to Scotland in getting independence.  They have every right to push for it as a country in their own right.

As for racists, I think Kaffs articulated it much better than I saying that while most will not be racists, it was probably the sentiment of racists that carried it over the line.   I'm not surprised that people are a bit wounded or uppity about being cast as racists when they aren't, think it's 'nasty vitriol' but it's guilt by association to a certain extent.  Farage knew exactly who he was appealing to when he put that Nazi-style poster up.  I agree with Kaffs, it was the racists that took it over the line for Brexit.  

Totally agree with your sentiment Kaffs.

Brilliant speech by Jeremy on TV at the moment.    

Carnelian posted:

velvet donkey posted:

Do you wanna be the organ grinder or the monkey?

Sovereignty!  Don't make me laugh!

 

We have a majority government elected by 25% of the electorate, through a ludicrously unrepresentative voting system,

Unelected House of Lords stuffed with cronies of the Tories

Unelected monarch

Unelected Bishops sitting in the House of Lords whose loyalty is to the monarch first and their so-called God second

Unelected Quangos

The most extreme anti-trade union legislation in Europe

 

You really haven't a clue.  Little Englander mentality.  How's that £350m promised to the NHS going? They refuted their promise/lie straight away.  

 

When do we get to burn down the Riechstag and blame it on the Muslims?

 

 

 

The only person that appears to be  preaching hatred here is you Carnelian. We live in a democracy and all I and other brexiters did was exercise our democratic rights ! From my point of view I voted us in, watched for over 40 years and didn't like what I saw , so I voted out .  Our democracy might not be perfect , but its better than the alternative . And if you only like people having a vote if they agree with you then perhaps you should move to a totalitarian state where people are told how to vote ! 

Baz posted:

Carnelian posted:

velvet donkey posted:

Do you wanna be the organ grinder or the monkey?

Sovereignty!  Don't make me laugh!

 

We have a majority government elected by 25% of the electorate, through a ludicrously unrepresentative voting system,

Unelected House of Lords stuffed with cronies of the Tories

Unelected monarch

Unelected Bishops sitting in the House of Lords whose loyalty is to the monarch first and their so-called God second

Unelected Quangos

The most extreme anti-trade union legislation in Europe

 

You really haven't a clue.  Little Englander mentality.  How's that £350m promised to the NHS going? They refuted their promise/lie straight away.  

 

When do we get to burn down the Riechstag and blame it on the Muslims?

 

 

 

The only person that appears to be  preaching hatred here is you Carnelian. We live in a democracy and all I and other brexiters did was exercise our democratic rights ! From my point of view I voted us in, watched for over 40 years and didn't like what I saw , so I voted out .  Our democracy might not be perfect , but its better than the alternative . And if you only like people having a vote if they agree with you then perhaps you should move to a totalitarian state where people are told how to vote ! 

Oh really?  I'm preaching hate am I?  I'm putting up Nazi style posters of queues of immigrants and blowing the racist dog whistle am I?  I don't think so and quite honestly I totally resent your attempts to deflect criticism of who you voted with!

No, our "democracy" is a joke.  Do you know how much pressure unelected foreign press baron Rupert Murdoch put on Blair to hasten the invasion of Iraq?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18468123

Yet where was Brexit complaining about that?  Of course not, because Murdoch's their man.  His papers spread lies, slurs and half truths about immigrants and people on benefits.  He struts into number 10 to lay down the law and you lot don't bat an eyelid.  Yet straight bananas and you're up in arms!

So how dare YOU accuse me of preaching hate!  Contemptible deflection!

George Osborne has been conspicuous by his absence since the referendum result 

Let's remind ourselves that Farage said the referendum was 'about immigration'.  It was so much about immigration that Farage put up crude and vile Nazi style posters to scare people into voting for Brexit and to blow the dog whistle to racists.  Project Hate was a 100% success!

Unfortunately Baz doesn't like being reminded of the company she/he keeps.

I voted out... I'm far from a racist bigot! Here are some of the reasons i used my vote the way i did

Carnelian posted:

Let's remind ourselves that Farage said the referendum was 'about immigration'.  It was so much about immigration that Farage put up crude and vile Nazi style posters to scare people into voting for Brexit and to blow the dog whistle to racists.  Project Hate was a 100% success!

 

Unfortunately Baz doesn't like being reminded of the company she/he keeps.

Lets not make it personal eh? 

Jen-Star posted:

Carnelian posted:

Let's remind ourselves that Farage said the referendum was 'about immigration'.  It was so much about immigration that Farage put up crude and vile Nazi style posters to scare people into voting for Brexit and to blow the dog whistle to racists.  Project Hate was a 100% success!

Unfortunately Baz doesn't like being reminded of the company she/he keeps.

Lets not make it personal 

sorry Jen .... Mea culpa too  I just got fed up of some the bile being spouted simply because people dared to vote Leave . 

Carnelian posted:

Let's remind ourselves that Farage said the referendum was 'about immigration'.  It was so much about immigration that Farage put up crude and vile Nazi style posters to scare people into voting for Brexit and to blow the dog whistle to racists.  Project Hate was a 100% success!

 

Unfortunately Baz doesn't like being reminded of the company she/he keeps.

* sighs* I am more than happy to debate the issues .....if I wanted to deflect things I wouldn't even have said I voted Brexit .....but for the record  I keep no ones company but my own !  And I am sorry if people don't like the outcome , but there is no need for it to be expressed in such obnoxious , and quite frankly simplistic ways .  And I don't think it is me that is masking the issue / argument with fatuous hyperbole !  

Jen-Star posted:

I saw that on FB Jen .....a very wise pair  

I voted to remain,sadly England decided against.Scotland didn't.If there is another Scottish independence vote I will seriously have to give it some thought.I voted to remain part of the Uk,but Scotland has been totally shafted.Much as I'm not a fan of the snp.l detest Boris and co far more.

Baz posted:

Carnelian posted:

Let's remind ourselves that Farage said the referendum was 'about immigration'.  It was so much about immigration that Farage put up crude and vile Nazi style posters to scare people into voting for Brexit and to blow the dog whistle to racists.  Project Hate was a 100% success!

 

Unfortunately Baz doesn't like being reminded of the company she/he keeps.

* sighs* I am more than happy to debate the issues .....if I wanted to deflect things I wouldn't even have said I voted Brexit .....but for the record  I keep no ones company but my own !  And I am sorry if people don't like the outcome , but there is no need for it to be expressed in such obnoxious , and quite frankly simplistic ways .  And I don't think it is me that is masking the issue / argument with fatuous hyperbole !  

*sighs* even more!

Don't call me "obnoxious"!  Who do you think you are?

Brexit won at least partially by promoting hate.  Why can't you see something that is as plain as the nose on the end of your face?   Don't like the facts, that's just tough!  There is nothing 'obnoxious' about telling a few home truths.

A lot of people voted Brexit because of immigration.  They've admitted it in thousands.  I won't allow you to get away with denying that a certain amount of that sentiment was outright racist.

Did Farage not put up those posters?  He did and you can't deny it!  All those people surrounding Farage, cheering him on, congratulating him, even after putting up those posters.  Don't tell me they aren't complicit in Project Hate.  

Jo Cox was murdered by someone who hated the multicultural values that she supported and Farage and his party sneers at.

I've heard no end of commentators and supporters of Brexit say it was 'about' immigration.  Including Farage.  The dog whistle worked, why can't you just admit the plain facts that a lot of Brexit sentiment was anti-immigrant and some of that outright racist?

Brexit argument is that they're allowed to stereotype and sneer at Remain supporters as ivory towered rich metropolitan liberals but woe betide anyone argue that a proportion of Brexit argument was based on pure racism.  As it was.  

This is what gets me about the likes of Farage and the right wing thought police in general.  They are happy to fling insults but then cry foul when they get it back.

I have loved reading the thoughts of Chairman Carnelian. Isn't it great to have the democratic right to virtually post whatever you like here?

Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame Carnie. It has been my "pleasure" to read some of the most obnoxious twoddle I have ever read on this or any other forum.

I suppose this post will be pulled but do I care?

Nope 

Why do you think it would be pulled MOONIE?

Carnelian , for the record , if you read my posts properly , I never called you obnoxious , I said some of the views being expressed were obnoxious ....e.g. hoping that baby boomers lost their pension pots , calling Brexiters idiots , and traitors to their country etc. .....and I stand by that . 

Moonie posted:

I have loved reading the thoughts of Chairman Carnelian. Isn't it great to have the democratic right to virtually post whatever you like here?

 

Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame Carnie. It has been my "pleasure" to read some of the most obnoxious twoddle I have ever read on this or any other forum.

 

I suppose this post will be pulled but do I care?

Nope 

The prime reason why Brexit screwed up the country was basically to "Keep 'em out", Farage said it was about immigration and so have thousands of others stated quite clearly that they voted Brexit because of immigration  So he's admitted the country has been economically crippled to "keep 'em out." 

Tell me, why aren't you writing to Ukip complaining about their Nazi style election posters?  Easier to sneer at me for stating some uncomfortable truths, I bet!

Enjoy watching the country float down the toilet, but at least we'll have "kept 'em out!"

Once again you are being far too simplistic in order to prop up your argument .....the result was far more complicated than the mere issue of immigration .....and the failure to recognise or acknowledge that fact is exactly why we are where we are now . 

Baz posted:

Carnelian , for the record , if you read my posts properly , I never called you obnoxious , I said some of the views being expressed were obnoxious ....e.g. hoping that baby boomers lost their pension pots , calling Brexiters idiots , and traitors to their country etc. .....and I stand by that . 

Why is it obnoxious when a load of affluent old people who enjoyed free education, low house prices which they've made huge profits on, social mobility, rising living standards voted to curb the life chances of young people and have imposed on 16 year olds something they'll have to live with for decades but couldn't vote for?

The younger generation just seem to have all the burdens and none of the goodies.

I do hope their pensions are hit.  It would be karma for how they've thwarted life chances of the younger generation.  Obviously there are poor pensioners, struggling pensioners and even pensioners who are doing ok and have worked and deserve what they've got.  I certainly wouldn't wish a reversal on what funds they have.  I hope their lives improve, but sadly now the vicious market obsessed right are in change, they'll get hammered too.  I don't hate the old at all, I just think the affluent old, who did so well out of the state in their day, are being far too selfish.  They have a reversal coming to them.  

This government has been robbing the young to cater for their ageing affluent voter base.  All the cuts have gone to the young while the freebies the affluent old enjoy, remained ring fenced.  

I'm sorry, there needs to be some generational fairness because today's young won't have the pensions, the job security, the bricks and mortar equity that many of today's old enjoy.  

Carnelian posted:

Baz posted:

Carnelian , for the record , if you read my posts properly , I never called you obnoxious , I said some of the views being expressed were obnoxious ....e.g. hoping that baby boomers lost their pension pots , calling Brexiters idiots , and traitors to their country etc. .....and I stand by that . 

Why is it obnoxious when a load of affluent old people who enjoyed free education, low house prices which they've made huge profits on, social mobility, rising living standards voted to curb the life chances of young people and have imposed on 16 year olds something they'll have to live with for decades but couldn't vote for?

 

The younger generation just seem to have all the burdens and none of the goodies.

 

I do hope their pensions are hit.  It would be karma for how they've thwarted life chances of the younger generation.  Obviously there are poor pensioners and struggling pensioners and I certainly wouldn't wish a reversal on what meagre funds they have.  I hope their lives improve, but sadly now the vicious market obsessed right are in change, they'll get hammered too.  I don't hate the old at all, I just think the affluent old are being far too selfish.  They have a reversal coming to them.  

 

This government has been robbing the young to cater for their ageing affluent voter base.  All the cuts have gone to the young while the freebies the affluent old enjoy, remained ring fenced.  

 

I'm sorry, there needs to be some generational fairness because today's young won't have the pensions, the job security, the bricks and mortar equity that many of today's old enjoy.  

 

*Affluent*  old people are being selfish because they didn't vote for what you wanted ? Others are wrong because they are concerned about immigration ?  Do you ever stop to think that maybe , just maybe , they have a different perspective because they ARE old , and have seen/experienced  more than you have ? Or is that being patronising to young people  ?   And I am willing to bet that the majority of  these *old people * you are denigrating  have children and grandchildren .....WHY would you think they would want to rob them of the chance of a better life than they had ? The truth is that everyone ....and I mean everyone ....Remain or Leave .....voted the way they did because they wanted a better country ....not out of a selfish desire to ruin the country !

And for the record .....I AM old , but I have certainly never been affluent in my entire life ....and I DO have kids and 6 grandkids ....so am certainly NOT looking to knowingly scupper their chances . 

Oh , and none of us ....certainly not you and I .....not even the politicians ....know what the future will bring ....and the same is true whether we had stayed ...or whether we had left .  

Ummm... errr... 

 Anyone for chamomile tea? [ its laced with valium ]   I swear by it!

Roger the Alien posted:

Ummm... errr... 

 Anyone for chamomile tea? [ its laced with valium ]   I swear by it!

Tis OK Rosie .... 

Baz posted:

Oh , and none of us ....certainly not you and I .....not even the politicians ....know what the future will bring ....and the same is true whether we had stayed ...or whether we had left .  

True Baz

 I didn't vote as I think politicians are full of carp b.t.w. 

Baz posted:

Roger the Alien posted:

Ummm... errr... 

 Anyone for chamomile tea? [ its laced with valium ]   I swear by it!

Tis OK Rosie .... 

 OK Baz  I'll bring a flask into the BB fred, its usually needed there too !!! 

I have always voted - suffragettes fought for the right to vote etc. - but I certainly agree about politicians.  We need a new breed who will not lie to us, patronise us, sneer at us and treat us with contempt.

Roger the Alien posted:

Baz posted:

Roger the Alien posted:

Ummm... errr... 

 Anyone for chamomile tea? [ its laced with valium ]   I swear by it!

Tis OK Rosie .... 

 OK Baz  I'll bring a flask into the BB fred, its usually needed there too !!! 

It sure is ....although this year we all agree that they are a right load of plonkers  

squiggle posted:

I have always voted - suffragettes fought for the right to vote etc. - but I certainly agree about politicians.  We need a new breed who will not lie to us, patronise us, sneer at us and treat us with contempt.

Exactly Squiggle. Perfectly put 

The fact that that the leave campaign had that Cnut Farage as their poster boy told me from the start how their campaign would pan out.despicable.

Roger the Alien posted:

Ummm... errr... 

 Anyone for chamomile tea? [ its laced with valium ]   I swear by it!

I'll have one if the offer is still open.

squiggle posted:

I have always voted - suffragettes fought for the right to vote etc. - but I certainly agree about politicians.  We need a new breed who will not lie to us, patronise us, sneer at us and treat us with contempt.

Maybe Jo Cox was one of those politicians.

Possibly but I did see that her constituency voted Leave

I think if this referendum has shown us anything,   it's that politicians, of whatever persuasion,  are on a hiding to nothing until they start reconnecting with the concerns of voters . 

Roger the Alien posted:

Ummm... errr... 

 Anyone for chamomile tea? [ its laced with valium ]   I swear by it!

You really should curb that Swearing habbit!

Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:

Roger the Alien posted:

Ummm... errr... 

 Anyone for chamomile tea? [ its laced with valium ]   I swear by it!

You really should curb that Swearing habbit!

This old fogey is watching the Yung ens doing their thing at Glastonbury and thoroughly enjoying it.......you go Wolf Alice...

Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:

Roger the Alien posted:

Ummm... errr... 

 Anyone for chamomile tea? [ its laced with valium ]   I swear by it!

You really should curb that Swearing habbit!