Why did the predominantly Labour voting areas like the NE and Birmingham with their high % of immigrants vote Leave? 
Carnelian posted:Baz posted:Carnelian , are you really saying you believe that 17 million people are thick , useless, racist bigots ? Cos , with the greatest respect , that's how it's coming across .
Well let's look at the result. They've got their way by listening to and voting with a xenophobic a pub bore racist and a load of liars who have based their whole campaign on 30 years of right wing dripping tap xenophobia, anti intellectualism and lies. Don't trust the 'experts' trust a pub bore! Some even think they've stuck it to the establishment.
The very least those 17 million can do for wrecking this country's economy is pay the ÂĢ250 bn back in extra taxes, don't you think?
Are they thick racist bigots? Well no, not as such, but you can judge a person by the company they keep and who they agree with.
I think that's way too simplistic .....just because people don't agree with your ( in the widest sense of the word ) point of view doesn't make them wrong . And to lump them all together and demonise them simply deemens the argument.
Cosmopolitan posted:Why did the predominantly Labour voting areas like the NE and Birmingham with their high % of immigrants vote Leave?
That threw me too Cosmo . 
Like I say , it's much more complex and there is much more going on with the grassroots than some are willing to accept .
Some Brexit gems
We're taking out country back even though almost all laws are domestic
We've stuck it to the establishment by replacing a Buller Boy with a... Buller Boy.
We're concerned about immigration, but to be honest, we're not really too keen on that foreign lingo nor too many non-white faces.
Don't trust the so-called experts, they've been wrong before, so they must know less than a pub bore xenophobe.
Baz posted:Cosmopolitan posted:Why did the predominantly Labour voting areas like the NE and Birmingham with their high % of immigrants vote Leave?
That threw me too Cosmo .
It would appear so, Baz.
Baz posted:Carnelian posted:Baz posted:Carnelian , are you really saying you believe that 17 million people are thick , useless, racist bigots ? Cos , with the greatest respect , that's how it's coming across .
Well let's look at the result. They've got their way by listening to and voting with a xenophobic a pub bore racist and a load of liars who have based their whole campaign on 30 years of right wing dripping tap xenophobia, anti intellectualism and lies. Don't trust the 'experts' trust a pub bore! Some even think they've stuck it to the establishment.
The very least those 17 million can do for wrecking this country's economy is pay the ÂĢ250 bn back in extra taxes, don't you think?
Are they thick racist bigots? Well no, not as such, but you can judge a person by the company they keep and who they agree with.
I think that's way too simplistic .....just because people don't agree with your ( in the widest sense of the word ) point of view doesn't make them wrong . And to lump them all together and demonise them simply deemens the argument.
They may not think Farage is a racist and a xenophobe, but I do.
They may not think Boris Johnson is a liar, but I do.
They may not think their thoughts that they've stuck it to the establishment are those of useful idiots, but I do.
They may not think their head in the sand dismissal of expert warnings - which are now being experienced - was valuing stupidity above common sense, but I do.
They may not think it's a bit iffy to continually obsess about immigrants but I do.
So I shall judge them on that and I'm perfectly entitled to do so. They may think the ÂĢ250 bn they've cost the country is money they should pay back, but I do!
Baz, actually I think I've a right to be angry when Brexiters have cost the country ÂĢ250bn in one day. Don't you? That's my money too!
I hope some of those affluent aged baby boomers who voted Brexit see their pension funds crash.
Carnelian posted:Baz, actually I think I've a right to be angry when Brexiters have cost the country ÂĢ250bn in one day. Don't you? That's my money too!
I hope some of those affluent aged baby boomers who voted Brexit see their pension funds crash.
You have every right to be disappointed in the result ....as I would have been if had gone the other way..... but personal attacks on people who voted differently to you does nothing to legitimise your point of view IMO .
Baz posted:Carnelian posted:Baz, actually I think I've a right to be angry when Brexiters have cost the country ÂĢ250bn in one day. Don't you? That's my money too!
I hope some of those affluent aged baby boomers who voted Brexit see their pension funds crash.
You have every right to be disappointed in the result ....as I would have been if had gone the other way..... but personal attacks on people who voted differently to you does nothing to legitimise your point of view IMO .
I haven't personally attacked anyone. How can you personally attack 14 million people? I've criticised a group who've just trashed the economy! Can we have our money back? Don't you think you lot owe us theÂĢ250bn you've just lost us?
250bn was a calculation on paper and subsequently it bounced back
Carnelian posted:Baz posted:Carnelian posted:Baz, actually I think I've a right to be angry when Brexiters have cost the country ÂĢ250bn in one day. Don't you? That's my money too!
I hope some of those affluent aged baby boomers who voted Brexit see their pension funds crash.
You have every right to be disappointed in the result ....as I would have been if had gone the other way..... but personal attacks on people who voted differently to you does nothing to legitimise your point of view IMO .
I haven't personally attacked anyone. I've criticised a group who've just trashed the economy! Can we have our money back? Don't you think you lot owe us theÂĢ250bn you've just lost us?
You lot ? You mean us lot that you don't even know 
And I do think hoping that the baby boomers lose their pension pots is pretty personal ....leaving aside that those aforementioned baby boomers worked all their lives for it .....and paid taxes that contributed to the wealth you say we've just lost .
Baz posted:Carnelian posted:Baz posted:Carnelian posted:Baz, actually I think I've a right to be angry when Brexiters have cost the country ÂĢ250bn in one day. Don't you? That's my money too!
I hope some of those affluent aged baby boomers who voted Brexit see their pension funds crash.
You have every right to be disappointed in the result ....as I would have been if had gone the other way..... but personal attacks on people who voted differently to you does nothing to legitimise your point of view IMO .
I haven't personally attacked anyone. I've criticised a group who've just trashed the economy! Can we have our money back? Don't you think you lot owe us theÂĢ250bn you've just lost us?
You lot ? You mean us lot that you don't even know
Any more personal than "I hope no more Eastern Europeans come to my town" ?
The baby boomers have been cannibalising the wealth of the young and working poor for ages. They've messed it up for the young who'll be a lot poorer than them.
Back in the 1960s, a seat was won convincingly for the Tories, against all predictions, on the slogan "If you want a n****r for a neighbour, vote Liberal or Labour".
Brexit has exploited that sentiment. Farage's Nazi poster exemplified appealing to the basest of instincts.
Cosmopolitan posted:250bn was a calculation on paper and subsequently it bounced back
No, that's the money the Bank of England have put aside to prop up the economy after Brexit. Where's that money come from?
velvet donkey posted:There was more to the vote than that or are you a Labour strategist? You're losing the next if you are Alistair.
Ok Velvet what was it for you?
Carnelian posted:Baz, actually I think I've a right to be angry when Brexiters have cost the country ÂĢ250bn in one day. Don't you? That's my money too!
I hope some of those affluent aged baby boomers who voted Brexit see their pension funds crash.
I am a Baby Boomer, not affluent ( maybe suffer from the odd bout of wind) .
Carnelian posted:Cosmopolitan posted:250bn was a calculation on paper and subsequently it bounced back
No, that's the money the Bank of England have put aside to prop up the economy after Brexit. Where's that money come from?
It's on paper - it's not 'real'.
Out of interest who or what are your sources?
velvet donkey posted:Carnelian posted:Cosmopolitan posted:250bn was a calculation on paper and subsequently it bounced back
No, that's the money the Bank of England have put aside to prop up the economy after Brexit. Where's that money come from?
Broonie's gold reserves. Do we get that back?
Hold on! We didn't get to vote for that and weren't advised by a legion of experts in the field not to do it but still went and voted for it. That is said to cost ÂĢ8bn, and haven't the right wing milked it for the last decade? You lot have cost us around ÂĢ250 bn IN ONE day!
Brexiters should be taxed extra for wrecking the economy!
Respected expert after respected expert after respected expert advised that Brexit would cost the economy dearly but that was just brushed aside by arrogant self-appointed know-it-all know nothings as 'Project Fear'.
Give us back our money Brexiters!
velvet donkey posted:You're losing mate.
The people have spoken.
52% to 48%. Give us back our ÂĢ250 bn. You've screwed the economy up with your xenophobia, racism, rampant stupidity and ignorance.
Moodys has just downgraded the UK economy from stable to negative. It believes the UK's trade external to the EU is compromised.
Alan Greenspan says that London could lose its status as a world finance centre.
The Pound is expected to slide over the next few months.
Thanks Brexiters for your act of treason, it has been noted.
Carnelian posted:Moodys has just downgraded the UK economy from stable to negative. It believes the UK's trade external to the EU is compromised.
Alan Greenspan says that London could lose its status as a world finance centre.
The Pound is expected to slide over the next few months.
Thanks Brexiters for your act of treason, it has been noted.
Cosmopolitan posted:Why did the predominantly Labour voting areas like the NE and Birmingham with their high % of immigrants vote Leave?
Well, one possible reason is that the voters were confused as to what the Labour position actually was.
C4 News followed Corbyn while he was electioneering in the West Midlands (I think it was Birmingham, but I'm not certain). While there, they did a vox-pop, and nine out of ten locals thought that the official Labour position was to leave the EU. 
Baz posted:Carnelian , are you really saying you believe that 17 million people are thick , useless, racist bigots ? Cos , with the greatest respect , that's how it's coming across .
The TV stations are saying that outers are thick useless racist bigots, by dint of the people they have picked to comment.
Eugene's Lair posted:Cosmopolitan posted:Why did the predominantly Labour voting areas like the NE and Birmingham with their high % of immigrants vote Leave?
Well, one possible reason is that the voters were confused as to what the Labour position actually was.
C4 News followed Corbyn while he was electioneering in the West Midlands (I think it was Birmingham, but I'm not certain). While there, they did a vox-pop, and nine out of ten locals thought that the official Labour position was to leave the EU.
Really? Oh goodness...
velvet donkey posted:I think you're insulting the electorate if you think they need a pied piper these days
Don't you be getting into any scraps! Its only our political and economic future Velvet xx 
As someone who did a little canvassing here and there I am now able to reveal that the Corbyn material, is urban myth.
Voters swallowed the "Undemocratic Brussels makes our laws!" "Take back 350megapounds a week and get a hospital on every street corner!" "Take back our country!" All utter utter bolleaux.
People on the doorsteps would not listen to counter political or economic arguments.
I understand that Farrago has already admitted his lies and is backtracking.
Meanwhile I noted that Roger Daltrey was a keen Brexiter. So it gave me great pleasure to take CDs entitled Live at Hull, Leeds, the Isle of Wight, the Albert Hall, Quadrophenia, Tommy, Who's Next and many others and smash them into smithereens with a claw hammer. Reader! I was elated beyond belief.
velvet donkey posted:Roger the Alien posted:Eugene's Lair posted:Cosmopolitan posted:Why did the predominantly Labour voting areas like the NE and Birmingham with their high % of immigrants vote Leave?
Well, one possible reason is that the voters were confused as to what the Labour position actually was.
C4 News followed Corbyn while he was electioneering in the West Midlands (I think it was Birmingham, but I'm not certain). While there, they did a vox-pop, and nine out of ten locals thought that the official Labour position was to leave the EU.
UK politics exploded today Rog
Who's leading Labour into the next election anyone and what are the chances?
Goodness only knows Velvet
Garage Joe posted:As someone who did a little canvassing here and there I am now able to reveal that the Corbyn material, is urban myth.
Voters swallowed the "Undemocratic Brussels makes our laws!" "Take back 350megapounds a week and get a hospital on every street corner!" "Take back our country!" All utter utter bolleaux.
People on the doorsteps would not listen to counter political or economic arguments.
I understand that Farrago has already admitted his lies and is backtracking.
I saw Laura Kuenssberg interview Boris and she challenged him on that "ÂĢ350 million per week" figure. He actually admitted it wasn't true, and said he wasn't happy about it being used, but he still refused to withdraw references to it from the campaign. The reason why is obvious: it was revealed in a survey that 47% of the GBP actually believed that ÂĢ350 million figure, even though it had been widely discredited...
velvet donkey posted:Garage Joe posted:As someone who did a little canvassing here and there I am now able to reveal that the Corbyn material, is urban myth.
Voters swallowed the "Undemocratic Brussels makes our laws!" "Take back 350megapounds a week and get a hospital on every street corner!" "Take back our country!" All utter utter bolleaux.
People on the doorsteps would not listen to counter political or economic arguments.
I understand that Farrago has already admitted his lies and is backtracking.
Meanwhile I noted that Roger Daltrey was a keen Brexiter. So it gave me great pleasure to take CDs entitled Live at Hull, Leeds, the Isle of Wight, the Albert Hall, Quadrophenia, Tommy, Who's Next and many others and smash them into smithereens with a claw hammer. Reader! I was elated beyond belief.
You've got it bad mate.
Did you smash up your hoover, kettle and hairdryer too?
No! No need. I forgot to mention Live in Hyde Park but.
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I've only just discovered this:
Remember all those "Leave" campaign lines about "Of course the UK can manage on its own: we're the world's 5th largest economy!"
Well, turns out that the slump on the pound following the referendum result meant that we fell to being the 6th largest economy literally overnight!
http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/...nd-plummets-5964746/
Only one day in, and we haven't actually left the EU yet...
Genuine screen shot...
velvet donkey posted:Do you wanna be the organ grinder or the monkey?
Sovereignty! Don't make me laugh!
We have a majority government elected by 25% of the electorate, through a ludicrously unrepresentative voting system,
Unelected House of Lords stuffed with cronies of the Tories
Unelected monarch
Unelected Bishops sitting in the House of Lords whose loyalty is to the monarch first and their so-called God second
Unelected Quangos
The most extreme anti-trade union legislation in Europe
You really haven't a clue. Little Englander mentality. How's that ÂĢ350m promised to the NHS going? They refuted their promise/lie straight away.
When do we get to burn down the Riechstag and blame it on the Muslims?
Carnelian posted:velvet donkey posted:Do you wanna be the organ grinder or the monkey?
Sovereignty! Don't make me laugh!
We have a majority government elected by 25% of the electorate, through a ludicrously unrepresentative voting system,
Unelected House of Lords stuffed with cronies of the Tories
Unelected monarch
Unelected Bishops sitting in the House of Lords whose loyalty is to the monarch first and their so-called God second
Unelected Quangos
The most extreme anti-trade union legislation in Europe
You really haven't a clue. Little Englander mentality. How's that ÂĢ350m promised to the NHS going? They refuted their promise/lie straight away.
When do we get to burn down the Riechstag and blame it on the Muslims?
And this:
Nigel Farage: NHS might have to be replaced by private health insurance
There is a petition on social media. In short because it was a close result they can rerun the vote. Our chance to get our country back.
Baz posted:Carnelian posted:velvet donkey posted:Maybe they were concerned about European Rule.
If they weren't useful idiots, they'd be more concerned about a load of hard right zealots and racists calling the shots.
Useful I might be , idiot I ain't !
You certainly are no idiot, Baz.
My heart said out and my head said in. When it came down to the wire, I voted remain - and now I wish to goodness I hadn't, as Sturgeon is using it to push for another independence referendum.
I can't believe some of the comments in this thread.
We live in a democracy, with the freedom to vote for which ever side we believe is best for our country.
We may not get the result we want or think is best, but to come on here and spew such nasty vitriol, calling "leave" voters racists and traitors is disgusting - Carnelian, I am looking at you!
I watched the Nigel Farage Susanna Reid interview. She jumped down his throat (a man who had been up all night long) and threw accusations at him. He replied, quite rightly, that it was up to those in government how the money saved would be allocated. She was determined to call him a liar. Speaking for myself I would have liked to see some less biased interviewing, especially in view of the result.
I didn't watch, but did she really? How dare she! Because he lied maybe?
Beggars belief.
I'm gutted at the result. Do I think 17 million people are racist? No, of course not - some people I know and respect chose leave as is their right. Do I think an element of them are however? Definitely - and if I had any doubt the three minutes of news I managed to watch yesterday confirmed it. Old blokes croaking about 'getting my country back' and little grey haired old lady banging her chest and screeching 'Yeah! 'cauuse it's England - MY ENGLAND'
One feature was a family baker who closed because (they say) a Polish deli opened a few doors away. My local deli doesn't sell bread and cakes, so I don't get that.. however, most local shops here stock a large range of Polish food and bread. Try being inclusive instead of exclusive - and it's good business sense to boot. Supply and demand innit?
The question is - without the racist vote - would it have been a vote to leave? I don't believe so. Likewise if 16 and 17 year olds had a vote as they did in the Scottish referendum. They have a very good point with #notinmyname - they will be the ones most effected.
I feel disgusted, disappointed, afraid (if the pound doesn't recover, the business I work in is seriously screwed - we booked enough currency to see us through to the start of the year, but at the current exchange rate we can't supply at our normal prices) angry, but most of all incredibly sad that this country is so fractured. Salmond did it to Scotland, Nippy Nicky's looking for round 2 and now Cameron et al have done it to us all.
Seems funny that right wing Brexiteers aren't fussed about Rupert Murdoch strutting into number 10 to lay down the law and tell British governments what to do. Funny they don't mind that part of their so-called 'sovereignty' being walked all over.