Totally agree with you about Natalie, I really liked her at the beginning, but now I just think she is rather bitter...Shame because she is a damn fine actress.

The thing is, he has tried ( god has he tried!) telling her quietly on their own, he even asked Natalie to have a QUIET word with her and tell her to back off. Natalie instead went straight out and broadcast the whole conversation to her infront of everyone. Making Michael the bad guy. This time he has just came right out and said it straight to her face, with them all as witnesses so there can be no mistaking the meaning, as honestly and straightforward as he could possibly be. Yes it might be a bit cruel,but he's tried every other avenue available..... i bet he's even asked BB to have a word but we wont know about that till he's out.

Michael doesn't know Denise from squat,why should he know about her demons etc.He's on the show for dosh basically as they all are,though the winner gives  the prize to charity.

Spot on Katerina

Ha Ha....... Michael would, of course, on speaking to the person he knew was closest to Denise, have no idea that she would nave done that

Denise is rabid for Michael,he's not interested therefore she's on the "attack/love" mode,it's a shame really showing herself up like that.However she has moon faced Nat and peroxode (I miss me kids) Nicole on board so they will all say and vote the same way...Shame it didn't work  tonight! Har!

I think if people watched the timelines again they will see Denise did'nt cry cos of what Michael said or what she said about him but it was when she realised their nasty plan to get the twins or Michael out did'nt work and they were all up apart from Gareth..she's a self obsessed lush....

It was harsh what he said but true in all honesty I believe they are all thinking the same thing about Denise,Americans are much more outspoken than us ..he gave  the same reasons about her as he did when he has been nominating her in the diaryroom. 

If she was truly close to Denise she wouldn`t have done that. In one fell swoop she managed to embarrass, upset and rile up her " friend" Denise, set the others against Michael, and promote herself into sainthood. Job done. 

Not quite what Michael expected when he put his trust in Natalie to help get his stalker off his back. 

I agree Scotty   a genuine friend would not have done that ..Michael believed her when she said she was not taking sides and she believed her to  be the caring negotiator,the penny dropped last night when they all sided with Denise ..made me laugh when he said to Natalia ..now you know how it feels to be up so much for your negotiating..or words to that effect

of the three of them, natalie is the one i dislike the most, at least dennis is what she is and its clear to  to see and  nicola  is also   very transparent and is unable to  disgiuse her nastisness for very long.

natilie is a con artist, who has an elevated  opinion of her own self worth and nature, and is  as nasty as nicola  and  better at manipulation of the  situations she comes across than even  dennis is.

This bothered me last night when I was totally on Michaels side cos I thought maybe there is a lot we aren't seeing if they are all on her side. . bit like the Coolio and Nadia thing with the anti transsexual remarks he made to her that were cut out completely until they couldn't edit it out anymore as it became the main topic of all convo's.. [not that she was well behaved on that show either....]  and I was always pretty sure of my judgement of people when there was LF as I used to run it in the background most of the time and saw how situations built up and what people were really like in a more rounded way.. now I kinda have a bit of doubt in my reading of the situation..

but then I also recalled that a lot of their spats happened with just the two of them in the room so the others don't see things like her threatening to punch him or switching just like that when they were having a chat on the bed and suddenly she tells him to eff off. .as for Michael mentioning her unbalanced status as a reason whilst harsh it was no secret.. within the first day she'd told them all about her mental problems with depression and how she and her family weren't sure doing BB was a good thing as it comes and goes with no warning and her mood switches just like that.. 

also when she went to fetch him to go for a birthday drink with Frankie and he lost it with her one of the twins said maybe it's because he goes in the bedroom for some me time or space and you following him in is what he is telling you to stop doing. .she doesn't get the 'leave me alone' vibes when people want space at all..

having waffled on I also find it bad that when the young girls go topless in BB it's ok but when an older lady does it's not.. not that I think any of it is ok my self tbh... am fine with beach toplessness but not of getting ya tits out on TV, no matter what age... but I hated that Brian pulled a disgusted face and comments elsewhere I've seen are 'she shouldn't be doing that at her age'. .why?  at least hers are real and it won't hurt young lads to know what real boobs look like.. they aren't all big plastic basketballs with perky nips.. they are all different

blimey a huge waffle  *shuts up*

i think the topless thing and the  hoohaa about it  olly, was that it  was done to 'titilate'  a lad of  nineteen....

edited to say the bit in bold was referring to MM and not you lot 

was it tho? I thought it was  that she was drunk, there was a hot jacuzzi she got in it topless ..the fact there were young lads in there gawping and laughing seemed just an aside to the fact she wanted to flash her boobs,  which she is known for doing a lot regardless of age of people around, and join in the Jacuzzi fun..

I may be wrong tho .. ..

i dunno either olls, bit it's what made me cringe.

it's like havin your best mate's mum come up to you in a nightclub and start  doin that grinding dance  with you...

Dame, Michael drinks in there. .I've seen him knecking bottles of beer so it can't be that.. also early on in the show there were a few clips of him which didn't involve Denise where he seemed to have a dry wit and be quite amusing which is why I quite liked him, not having a clue who he was previously. . all that is lost now cos they tend to only show the bits with him and Denise spatting  . .

hahaha ..bet you don't complain if you classed her as a MILF tho

you have a point...

I've seen him have a couple Olly, but I still think he keeps himself in check, it's well documented he's had drink problems in the past. I admit  Denise must be a nightmare but I can't see the attraction to MM at all, I did warm to him for a couple of days and then thought he's a moody, boring fart

.We are all saying things are edited out, but it also works both ways. I hink that Romeo and Gareth nominating Michael shows that we are not seeing the whole picture. I also think Michael's popularity is boosted by peoples dislike for Denise...me I don't like either, although I do find myself feeling a bit sorry for Denise, 

Olly - I can't quote here but a couple of things you said

denise being drunk in jacuzzi... on the original clip, didn't the twins etc say when she came in 'she's not even drunk is she?' and they all said she wasn't?

and

that she got them out because she wanted to and the boys gawping were irrelevant... she went into the diary room and said she'd got them out 'to keep the young boys happy'    *shudders*

I don't doubt he's had problems with drink in the past Dame. .some people can be aware they use drink for the wrong reasons but are able to have a few now and then without going ott but keep away from too much when they are stressed cos that's when their trouble with drink starts up again. .not sure Denise has learnt how to do that.. 

as I said in my waffle post up there I did stop and think last night about what are we not seeing when they all said they were on Denise's side so my opinion, that is more in Michaels favour, is guarded ... having said that not a lot of them have seen the really nasty spats they have had when Denise has just turned on him or he has lost it with her cos non of them were there so tis hard to form a proper opinion based ont he otehr HM's opinions either.. Also they have not seen where Michael has gone off for some me time and Denise has trotted after him with her desperate love me Michael, like me Michael attempts.. tho one of the astute twins pointed out that might just be why she gets up his nose. .not that she paid any attention to her..

Michael may be a shed load of fun but as I also said that could have been edited out for the more nastier bits to go in to make 'good TV' cos he started off interestingly, for me anyway, as a person who knew nowt of him before 

Did anyone see Georgias spatt with Michael on BBBOTS last night?  I think that was really telling. Georgia simply said something about wanting to get ready so she looked nice for the eviction and he went into one, just like he does about Denise. She was sat there, gobsmacked saying "what on earth is wrong with you".  He then answered by saying "why dont you and Denise take a long walk". (or words to that effect). It was totally out of the blue and out of order.

Georgia then said, in the studio, that he was a bully and she just ignored him. So I think hes being edited well.  Think what you like of Georgia, but I dont see her as some massive trouble maker. I think she is fairly sweet and quiet.  I never did take to Michael, or see what others saw in him, but i did think Denise was making a tit (literally ) out of herself. Now im not even so sure about that.

yeah I remember the twins saying she wasn't drunk. . I think she was merry not plastered tbh and I missed the other bit, but even so am still annoyed that cos she's old she's not allowed to go topless especially around young men which would be normal on a Med beach with people of all ages around. .tho also I don't think it's clever for anybody of any age to get their baps out on TV or in papers cos it's out there forever and is a tad cheap  ..same goes for the boys going nekkid on tv too.   

yeah I saw that Gyps and thought blimey that is out of order. .not excusing him am just not sure what leads up to any of these spats he or the others have tho . he maybe was grumpy cos of the eviction, last night showed the fact they put him up affected him more than he'd let on when he said now you know how it feels.. but he was incredibly rude to Georgia for no reason at all..

See this is why I stopped having favourites a long time ago cos altho I can easily find people I wouldn't want anywhere near the final week I find every time I see someone and think ok yeah maybe I want you to win they go and disappoint me and I am a tad unforgiving . . so nowadays I just have a list in my head of  worst to least worst HM..

Sorry Olly, I'm just not seeing the fun Michael at all  Like Gypsie said up there ^^^^ he snaps for nothing, he seems to be on a short fuse constantly. I know Denise follows him and tries to get him to talk and join in and like I said going by the editing she must be a nightmare, 

I've also seen Michael blowing hot and cold and that must be so confusing to Denise. I also see a grumpy man, that's not up for joining in unless it suits him. tasks, fun and conversation are all depending on his mood, 

Maybe I'm looking at the situation differently because I don't care for either and can see faults on both sides, but in al honesty I do sympathize with Denise I don't think it was a good idea her going in, but equally I think Michael would be grumpy with his own company, let alone a houseful of strangers. 

 I laughed at that too Marguerita,  it took the wind out of her sails but it won`t stop her running around being chief peacemaker whenever anything crops up. Like she did when the spat was going on with Kirk, the twins and Georgia. In she comes, spouting her usual insincere dross.  She loves the fall outs, it gives her a chance to show how "caring" she is..just like Nicola.  

I see where you are coming from Dame. .but tbh he and the twins are the only ones in there who have actually made me laugh so for now I'll stick with one of them to win... I am likely to change my mind at any time tho

I'm not bothered who wins Olly, just some are more at the bottom of my list than the top and Michael being one of them 

I agree.... and I do wonder if Michael would have been quite so popular had it not been for Denise being perceived as hounding him. Take her out of the equation and what is left..... a rather grumpy man who seems to spend as much time lying in bed as anything else. In any other circumstances I am sure the forum would have been saying  get him out he is boring

But if she'd have never entered the house he might have been a totally different person mood wise..my dad is the exact same as him but worse..if he does'nt like you or your action my gawd you'll know about it, I think Michael has been very constrained, taking himself away when he knows she'll be necking the bottle and getting loud and annoying and doing her me me me me....

But we don't actually know that do we Stonks..... I know I am in a very small minority here......... but to me he has inflamed the whole situation by his attitude . Point in question.... the *last meal* fiasco. Why was it necessary for him to pretend to be so obtuse about that.. if not to deliberately  get at Denise? I am willing to bet that if someone else had asked the question he would have joined in. I think that was the point when he lost my support..... and it's been downhill all the way for me since then  And an even bigger gripe I have against him is that has actually made me feel sorry for Denise! For that I will never forgive him!!

Now the last meal fiasco..Michael comes from America where the death penalty still stands in a lot of states, we don't know if she hit a raw nerve, we don't know his family or friends history..But it was another one of her things that she HAD to talk to Michael even though she knew he does'nt like her, she does'nt do it to anyone else only him.....

I agree she is very annoying Stonks.....  and trust me I don't like her much.  I just think he seemed to make up his mind almost from the start that he didn't like her... which is fine... we can't aways like people but sometimes , as grown ups, we have to suck it up and make the best of it.  I don't think Michael has done that..... in fact he has gone out of his way to let her and everyone else know that he wants her out , simply because HE doesn't get on with her.... that to me is childish.... as was his dig about her emotional state last night.

I don't know if people heard Michael the other night saying to someone (I forget who) that hed idn't know why she was trying so hard with him as he just doesn't like her,and what did she expect to get out it.

Well I personally think when she found out that she was in the house with a Hollywood actor she thought she may be able to jump on his gravy train, and it may have been her ticket to get in with Hollywood peeps. Denise does think that she herself is a fabulous actress, and will not believe for one minute that someone just does not like her, or her vulgar common ways.

I didn't like her before this BB, but I really cannot stand her now.As Stonks said, she will be playing  the "Poor me, I need rehab" card as soon as she comes out, then she will be earning buckets of money going on shows, and writing books about her behavior. 

I am in no way belittling mental health issues as I know people with them, but, I also know that they can be used as excuses for bad behaviour.

Let's have a serious debate about this.

Unless Milliband is going to bring back socialism later on, then there remains a market for the mechanism you describe. A vast economy exists based on foolish consumers spending their money on magazines dealing with gossip, liquor and  drugs, and intra, perm any two from seven, showbiz sex.

Why shouldn't Denise dip her beak in it and make a bit of cash? Or are you saying that there are deserving and undeserving sops?