Totally entitled to your opinion, Baz. I'd query the 'morally' bit though. I guess everyone only has to live with their own conscience.
Kaffs posted:Totally entitled to your opinion, Baz. I'd query the 'morally' bit though. I guess everyone only has to live with their own conscience.
Ok, well maybe morally wasn't quite the right word Kaffs ...,and once again I'd like to reiterate that I don't agree with many of their policies/tennants/beliefs ......but that doesn't mean that using them to form a majority government isn't a wholly legitimate way forward .
I believe morally was exactly the right word Baz. I hold no brief for either party in Northern Ireland but Teresa May is seeking their support in what is a very difficult situation. Of course with hindsight she should not have called the election but as we all know hindsight is 20/20 vision. We are left with a far from satisfactory situation but I think she is right to say 'let's get on with it'.
Seriously Squiggle - you defend the morality of that party? Shame there's no UKIP MPs this time - she could have morally depended on them too.
Kaffs posted:Seriously Squiggle - you defend the morality of that party? Shame there's no UKIP MPs this time - she could have morally depended on them too.
If I could like this post more than once I would.
squiggle posted:I believe morally was exactly the right word Baz. I hold no brief for either party in Northern Ireland but Teresa May is seeking their support in what is a very difficult situation. Of course with hindsight she should not have called the election but as we all know hindsight is 20/20 vision. We are left with a far from satisfactory situation but I think she is right to say 'let's get on with it'.
I think she should too Squiggle 
And I agree she was stupid to call the election ...and ran a rubbish campaign ...but she is right about the fact that what we need now is stability ...and quite frankly I can't see a viable alternative . I think she will probably step down or ...as tends to happen get booted out before too long ....and personally I'm hoping that David Davis takes over . But let's face it her determination to stay on is no different to Corbyn holding on to power with two thirds of the Labour MPs wanting him out 
The bottom line is her party still got the most seats and the most votes , so .....
I agree Baz, sadly I think Boris will shoulder charge any other contenders! Ambition runs very high in that family.
Baz posted:squiggle posted:I believe morally was exactly the right word Baz. I hold no brief for either party in Northern Ireland but Teresa May is seeking their support in what is a very difficult situation. Of course with hindsight she should not have called the election but as we all know hindsight is 20/20 vision. We are left with a far from satisfactory situation but I think she is right to say 'let's get on with it'.
I think she should too Squiggle
Not any more they're not. Some of them are actually apologising for what they did and saying they were wrong
And yes, your party got the most votes but heavily diminished and actually lost seats while Labour gained 
Baz posted:I think she should too Squiggle
The difference being the party members voted him in, not the MPs. I don't think it's the same at all
Theresa would be well warned to rememeber that old phrase 'If you get in bed with the devil sooner or later you're gonna have to..........' and this site permits me from posting the end of that sentence.
Sprout posted:Baz posted:squiggle posted:I believe morally was exactly the right word Baz. I hold no brief for either party in Northern Ireland but Teresa May is seeking their support in what is a very difficult situation. Of course with hindsight she should not have called the election but as we all know hindsight is 20/20 vision. We are left with a far from satisfactory situation but I think she is right to say 'let's get on with it'.
I think she should too Squiggle
Not any more they're not. Some of them are actually apologising for what they did and saying they were wrong
And yes, your party got the most votes but heavily diminished and actually lost seats while Labour gained
You can argue til your blue in the face Sprout ....Labour didn't win ...they didn't even get enough seats to for a coalition .....and if facts are needed that's one 
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Kaffs posted:Seriously Squiggle - you defend the morality of that party? Shame there's no UKIP MPs this time - she could have morally depended on them too.
If I could like this post more than once I would.
Why did you do that Baz, I'm entitled to my opinion aren't I?
Kaffs posted:Baz posted:I think she should too Squiggle
The difference being the party members voted him in, not the MPs. I don't think it's the same at all
Theresa would be well warned to rememeber that old phrase 'If you get in bed with the devil sooner or later you're gonna have to..........' and this site permits me from posting the end of that sentence.
N I K E ? yes , there is definitely that danger ....but like I say , for me personally the alternative is more alarming .
Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Kaffs posted:Seriously Squiggle - you defend the morality of that party? Shame there's no UKIP MPs this time - she could have morally depended on them too.
If I could like this post more than once I would.
Why did you do that Baz, I'm entitled to my opinion aren't I?
Yes, but so are others , aren't they ?
Kaffs posted:Seriously Squiggle - you defend the morality of that party? Shame there's no UKIP MPs this time - she could have morally depended on them too.
Squiggle didn't defend the morality of the DUP, in fact she quite definitely said she had no brief for either of the NI parties. You're twisting what was said, Kaffs.
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Kaffs posted:Seriously Squiggle - you defend the morality of that party? Shame there's no UKIP MPs this time - she could have morally depended on them too.
If I could like this post more than once I would.
Why did you do that Baz, I'm entitled to my opinion aren't I?
Yes, but so are others , aren't they ?
Yes, everyone's allowed their opinion, and that's all I was doing - giving mine. I haven't rolled my eyes at any of your posts.
Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Kaffs posted:Seriously Squiggle - you defend the morality of that party? Shame there's no UKIP MPs this time - she could have morally depended on them too.
If I could like this post more than once I would.
Why did you do that Baz, I'm entitled to my opinion aren't I?
Yes, but so are others , aren't they ?
Yes, everyone's allowed their opinion, and that's all I was doing - giving mine. I haven't rolled my eyes at any of your posts.
well I'd say your reply to the post was the verbal equivalent of a rolling eye smiley
N I K E ?
Another election? Why so... ? Because it's pretty plain that if the 'snap' election had been slightly more 'snappy' - she would probably have got her landslide.. and slightly less 'snappy' and more people would have seen through the media bias and Corbyn might have got those few thousand votes and extra seats?
BTW I think the comment about not deserving to win if they failed three times is a bit harsh - it's not as if it was a whitewash. There but for the grace of god and another week or two of campaigning and it could have been very different. I'm actually not that unhappy with the outcome tbh - now they have to put their money where their mouth is and deliver Brexit ... I do think it's gonna be tough, whoever was negotiating, and if it had fallen in Labour's lap they would have loved every negative comment.
It's a decision that's going to affect governments and generations to come - I think it should actually be a cross party negotiating team.
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Kaffs posted:Seriously Squiggle - you defend the morality of that party? Shame there's no UKIP MPs this time - she could have morally depended on them too.
If I could like this post more than once I would.
Why did you do that Baz, I'm entitled to my opinion aren't I?
Yes, but so are others , aren't they ?
Yes, everyone's allowed their opinion, and that's all I was doing - giving mine. I haven't rolled my eyes at any of your posts.
well I'd say your reply to the post was the verbal equivalent of a rolling eye smiley
Well if that's the way you want to take it, fair enough. I just simply agreed with Kaffs post.
Yogi19 posted:Kaffs posted:Seriously Squiggle - you defend the morality of that party? Shame there's no UKIP MPs this time - she could have morally depended on them too.
Squiggle didn't defend the morality of the DUP, in fact she quite definitely said she had no brief for either of the NI parties. You're twisting what was said, Kaffs.
Sorry - that probably came over wrong- it's Theresa's May's morals that are questionable. I don't believe it's morally right to cosy up to people with their views to further your own ends.
Baz posted:squiggle posted:I agree Baz, sadly I think Boris will shoulder charge any other contenders! Ambition runs very high in that family.
Yes
Trouble is I think he would simply be an out of the frying pan into the fire contender
Shock horror - we agree. Boris should be viewed as a liability. I don't understand why he's not.
Kaffs posted:Baz posted:squiggle posted:I agree Baz, sadly I think Boris will shoulder charge any other contenders! Ambition runs very high in that family.
Yes
Shock horror - we agree. Boris should be viewed as a liability. I don't understand why he's not.
He is a liability - on that we can agree.
Kaffs posted:Yogi19 posted:Kaffs posted:Seriously Squiggle - you defend the morality of that party? Shame there's no UKIP MPs this time - she could have morally depended on them too.
Squiggle didn't defend the morality of the DUP, in fact she quite definitely said she had no brief for either of the NI parties. You're twisting what was said, Kaffs.
Sorry - that probably came over wrong- it's Theresa's May's morals that are questionable. I don't believe it's morally right to cosy up to people with their views to further your own ends.
Fair enough 
Kaffs posted:N I K E ?
Another election? Why so... ? Because it's pretty plain that if the 'snap' election had been slightly more 'snappy' - she would probably have got her landslide.. and slightly less 'snappy' and more people would have seen through the media bias and Corbyn might have got those few thousand votes and extra seats?
BTW I think the comment about not deserving to win if they failed three times is a bit harsh - it's not as if it was a whitewash. There but for the grace of god and another week or two of campaigning and it could have been very different. I'm actually not that unhappy with the outcome tbh - now they have to put their money where their mouth is and deliver Brexit ... I do think it's gonna be tough, whoever was negotiating, and if it had fallen in Labour's lap they would have loved every negative comment.
It's a decision that's going to affect governments and generations to come - I think it should actually be a cross party negotiating team.
No, I meant a Corbyn led government . But I stand by my assertion about them having failed to get in . ....and you....not you personally ...but the royal you .... can play the what if game til the cows come home ...an election was called ....there was an election....people voted ...and there was a result . If you win it's judged fair ...if you lose you call foul ....such is human nature .
Kaffs posted:Baz posted:squiggle posted:I agree Baz, sadly I think Boris will shoulder charge any other contenders! Ambition runs very high in that family.
Yes
Shock horror - we agree. Boris should be viewed as a liability. I don't understand why he's not.
There's always a first
Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Kaffs posted:Seriously Squiggle - you defend the morality of that party? Shame there's no UKIP MPs this time - she could have morally depended on them too.
If I could like this post more than once I would.
Why did you do that Baz, I'm entitled to my opinion aren't I?
Yes, but so are others , aren't they ?
Yes, everyone's allowed their opinion, and that's all I was doing - giving mine. I haven't rolled my eyes at any of your posts.
well I'd say your reply to the post was the verbal equivalent of a rolling eye smiley
Well if that's the way you want to take it, fair enough. I just simply agreed with Kaffs post.
Maybe you should have waited until it had been clarified then 
But I knew exactly what was meant Baz, and to that end why did I have to wait until it had been clarified?
Baz posted:Sprout posted:But I knew exactly what was meant Baz, and to that end why did I have to wait until it had been clarified?
Fair enough , although obviously not everyone did .......perhaps you should have explained the bit you were agreeing with ....but I withdraw my
Well thank you for that. And as for the agreeing, well it was all of it
No, I meant a Corbyn led government . But I stand by my assertion about them having failed to get in . ....and you....not you personally ...but the royal you .... can play the what if game til the cows come home ...an election was called ....there was an election....people voted ...and there was a result . If you win it's judged fair ...if you lose you call foul ....such is human nature .
I've been out visiting my Dad.... Just to make it clear - I'm not calling foul on the result. I'm quite happy with the result - well, not 'happy' that she's in obviously, but more than happy with the Labour performance given that he only really had a few weeks of being able to show people what he was about with the guarantee of being able to speak for himself on TV. We'll get you next time!
Baz posted:pirate1111 posted:Jeremy Corbyn was just 2,227 votes away from becoming Prime Minister outright
I think you'll find it's nearer 800,000 Pirate
nah..British politics doesnt work that way..the voting system is tainted
Jeremy Corbyn was just 2,227 votes away from having the chance to become Prime Minister in the general election, an analysis of marginal seats has revealed.
If the Labour leader had won seven seats narrowly taken by the Conservatives, he would have had the opportunity to form a âprogressive allianceâ with all other smaller parties, barring the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP).
Can I put my twopennorth in?....I will admit my bias against Corbyn any man who asks for a minutes silence for an IRA terrorist is a no go in my book.
not so long ago there was another hung parliament and Labour were eager to court the DUP to get into power and the DUP were happy to sell their vote to the highest bidder
Now they are an elected member of the government and as such are supposed to be treated the same as any other sitting members under Parliamentary law....so either side could legitimately court their votes. Yes, they do have dubious social policies, but there are plenty of MPs who subscribe to some if not all of them.
when the DUP trade their votes they are very pragmatic....it's money behind their acquiescence...economics and finance rule. It's called Real Politic, acting in your own self interest and that is what is happening now
Thats me lot
pirate1111 posted:Baz posted:pirate1111 posted:Jeremy Corbyn was just 2,227 votes away from becoming Prime Minister outright
I think you'll find it's nearer 800,000 Pirate
nah..British politics doesnt work that way..the voting system is tainted
Jeremy Corbyn was just 2,227 votes away from having the chance to become Prime Minister in the general election, an analysis of marginal seats has revealed.
If the Labour leader had won seven seats narrowly taken by the Conservatives, he would have had the opportunity to form a âprogressive allianceâ with all other smaller parties, barring the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP).
I wanted to reply to this earlier, but had some problems... 
As a "what if" it makes a valid point about our first-past-the-post system, but in practise it would always be more theoretical than realistic.
Firstly, this is dependent on Sinn Fein not taking their seats in Parliament [likely], meaning that neither Corbyn or May need the full 326-seat majority.
Secondly, it assumes that Corbyn could hold an alliance of everyone (apart from the Tories and DUP) together - even down to the Independent MP for North Down! Unlikely, not least because for a start the Lib Dems said throughout the election that they wouldn't do deals with anyone.
Besides; as sitting PM with the most seats, it would be expected that May would still have first go at forming a government (although it's not a given, and there have been exceptions in the past).
It's also worth remembering that these "what ifs" work both ways: again allowing for a Sinn Fein no-show, May came within only 120 votes* of a working majority. That's all that would have been needed for the Tories to retain Kensington, Dudley North, Newcastle-under-Lyme and Crew and Nantwich - 4 seats which would have given them 322 in total and no need for a deal with the DUP at all...
* Some reports are saying 287 votes, but that's because they were written before the Kensington result.
MICHAEL GOVE back in the cabinet!!!!
Saint posted:MICHAEL GOVE back in the cabinet!!!!
Odious individual!
I see Boris is adamant that he's behind Theresa May. Anyone care to wager that he's got a knife poised between her shoulder blades?
Kaffs posted:I see Boris is adamant that he's behind Theresa May. Anyone care to wager that he's got a knife poised between her shoulder blades?
I've better ways to waste my money!
No complaints whatsoever - whatever the Tories do is up to them since they are in the driving seat.
BUT we had a great campaign. I love politics me. Most of us had written ourselves off since Mrs May had some of the highest ratings ever and even though it turned out that our leader apparently was the ex IRA managing director, rarely wears a tie and probably hangs toilet rolls the wrong way we pulled it back and returned OUR seat to the local GP. Most of the other GPS also gave support. Co Durham is now completely red.
Nationally it went from Conservative to NOC.
IMHYCO it all goes back to Brexit. Referenda and Parliamentary democracies don't mix. It's toxic and poorly thought out and who told you that it would lead to a crisis of hegemony? Hmmm?
:smug:
