Dragons... & St George!!! | GaGaJoyJoy

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Dirtyprettygirlthing

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Okay... so bear with me for some of this... I do know that dragons aren't real....

However, I love dragons. I love the idea of dragons (even the ones that swoop down on the villages... cos usually someone has done something to upset the dragon... like chained it in the basement (Merlin), there is the odd badass dragon... like the people eating ones in Reign of Fire.

My passion for dragons comes from the Anne McCaffrey Dragonriders of Pern books.. in them a one to one lifelong bond is formed with your dragon. The dragons on Pandora (Avatar).. (called Ikran) were lovely too!

So... all day I have been bombarded with pics of some little man wearing a metal suit standing triumphant over a dragon! Kept having a word with myself... "they aren't real... let it go" I kept thinking...

Then I pick up our local paper... and read this....

"Locally, it is said St George, of Layer de la Haye, killed a dragon which lived in the Stour Valley near Bures Known in medieval times as a worm the dragon was apparently rolled into the nearby ford, giving rise to the village name Wormingford."

I live in the Stour Valley near Bures... I can honestly say... there are no dragons.... but the bit that really really stands out... is the WORM bit!

worm to dragon! hmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Hubby just come in from work... and listened to my little dragon loving rant.... he just said "actually it was a crocodile that had escaped from the Tower of London and travelled up the Thames Estuary into Essex & up the Stour".

So.... worm to crocodile to dragon!

still hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm !

Replies sorted oldest to newest

ZaphodMember

...and breathe

Z.

4/23/1012:02 PM

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

but...but...but...

it was a worm!

4/23/1012:35 PM

Yogi19Member 10 years

Keep talking Ditty, you are making me feel sane.

4/23/1012:37 PM

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

hahaha!

I have been holding this in all day!

The article in the local paper was the last straw!

4/23/1012:42 PM

ZaphodMember

I expect you've been breathing fire over this, Ditty

Z.

4/23/1012:44 PM

Yogi19Member 10 years

Reference:

I have been holding this in all day!

You just let it all out, Ditty.

4/23/1012:47 PM

El LoroMember VIP10 yearsModerator

Not only are dragons worms, they are also vampires. Dracula is derived from Draco which is Latin for dragon. Draco in turn is derived from the Greek δρακων .

4/23/1012:52 PM

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

.... and St George is from Turkey!!

Its all a bit of a mess really innit El Loro?

It needs a bit of a rehash!

El LoroMember VIP10 yearsModerator

Reference:

Its all a bit of a mess really innit El Loro? It needs a bit of a rehash!

Right, so we need some suggestions as to who to have as our patron saint of England. How about St Gaga of Joyjoy?

ZaphodMember

St James Bond

Z.

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

Boudica!

She cut her boobs off she felt that strongly about fighting for her country!

It doesn't get much more dedicated than that!

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

She must come from these parts as well... cos we have a nice statue of her on a roundabout by the station...

ZaphodMember

That's a good idea Ditty!!! and she slaughtered a load of Romans.. which is a good thing

What have the Romans ever done for us?

Z.

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

Reference:

What have the Romans ever done for us

the aqueduct

Former Member

Reference:

Right, so we need some suggestions as to who to have as our patron saint of England

On Jeremy Vine's radio show today someone suggested Michael Caine

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

omg!

I have no problem with it being someone historical... in fact it should be someone historical... but I would like it if the reason for them being patron saint had a bit more credibility than worm/crocodile/dragon slaying.

Still... interesting to know I am not the only one who questions why St George

Former Member

Well as I'm Scottish ( but not particularly patriotic it has to be said......

), I've never really questioned St George but there was an interesting debate on Vine's show today - apparantly he didn't really exist or something along those lines.

Can't see Caine being up for the job really

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

hahaha!

my local paper reckons... he was born in Turkey in 280AD, enlisted in the cavalry of the Roman Army at 17, Swift promotion meant he soon led a regiment of 1000 men. He was beheaded in Palestine in 303AD and beautified by the roman Catholic church.

Beautified???

Henry V apparently made him the patron Saint of england when he and his soldiers won the battle of Agincourt.

Ok... so beautified means made a saint?

I am still a bit lost.... what did George, who died in 303AD have to do with Henry V winning a battle?

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

this battle was in 1415 btw

Former Member

Beheaded in Palestine?

Beautified by the Roman Catholics?
Henry V?
I won't even attempt to try and make sense of it

I had to laugh at another emailer to the Vine show today who said that their town was holding St George's day celebrations but the guy who was dressing up as St George was not allowed to ride a horse through the streets due to health and safety

Vine pointed out that he could just as easily be trampled on by the horse if he was walking beside it.

World's gone mad.

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

its been mad for sometime apparently...

since at least 1415 by the sounds of it

Blizz'ardMember 10 years

Reference: Zaphod

What have the Romans ever done for us?

Gave us St George?

kattymieowwMember 10 years

Right there are large Lizards etc on the planet."Komodo dragons" and "Monitor lizards" etc so.. who can tell if so called educted follk from years back heard tales abouit them.Never mind huge crocodillians etc.

Blizz'ardMember 10 years

Reference: Ditty

Ok... so beautified means made a saint?

Beatification means that the dead person is worthy of veneration and is often the first step towards canonisation ( being made a saint).

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

Reference:

Never mind huge crocodillians

yes.... see... I can see how it went.... worm... lizard... escaped crocodile.... not enough! not enough! give it wings... make it bigger.... breathes fire too!

Da da ..... Dragon!

We must be able to do better than this.... I don't even think poor old George himself would have chosen this tale to be what he is famous for (god I know my grammar is really wrong there... its late though..)..

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

Reference:

Beatification means that the dead person is worthy of veneration and is often the first step towards canonisation ( being made a saint).

beatification... or beautification? the more I look at these words, the more I think they are very very different! &...... veneration !!?!

so... if the church decides someone is worthy... and ? venerates them... what are they at that point...

apprentice saint?

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

Reference:

Right there are large Lizards etc on the planet."Komodo dragons"

Not in the Stour Valley Katty... I would have noticed!

.... though there are some dubious beings that hang around up the W.I. Hall!

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

ok... blonde question.... (cos up til now they have all been very sensible questions...)

Are saints a catholic thing then? or do all the christian faiths share the saints... or do the Church of England have their own... Methodists have a couple... etc?

kattymieowwMember 10 years

There are bladdy big barstwerds lizards all over the shop! Ahemm.

kattymieowwMember 10 years

Someone was out of an evening..having a stroll and took a piss(bloke) he was startled by a little bat,so being a pissed up bloke he had to big it up to dragon proportions..they do that...

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

ok... that could be it....

at least that is possible...

so.. next year I expect to see lots of pictures of this veeery brave man standing, hands on hips... one foot on the chest of the little bat he has bravely slayed!

is slayed a word?

ZaphodMember

My ever helpful MacBook dictionary says.. oo and look at the coincidence..

slay 1 |slā|verb ( past slew |sloō|; past part. slain |slān|) [ trans. ]archaic, poetic/literarykill (a person or animal) in a violent way : St. George slew the dragon. See note at kill .• (usu. be slain) murder (someone) (used chiefly in journalism) : a man was slain with a shotgun | [as n. ] (slaying) a gangland slaying.• informal greatly impress or amuse (someone) : you slay me, you really do.DERIVATIVESslayer nounORIGIN Old English slēan [strike, kill,] of Germanic origin; related to Dutch slaan and German schlagen.slay 2nounvariant spelling of sley .sley |slā| (also slay)nouna tool used in weaving to force the weft into place.ORIGIN Old English slege; related to slay

Z.

4/23/1011:11 PM

El LoroMember VIP10 yearsModerator

Reference

irtyprettygirlthing

I am still a bit lost.... what did George, who died in 303AD have to do with Henry V winning a battle?

It comes from Shakespeare's "Henry V" at the Battle of Agincourt scene (the battle was in 1415) when Henry V rallies the troops with this:
For there is none of you so mean and base, That hath not noble lustre in your eyes. I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips, Straining upon the start. The game's afoot: Follow your spirit, and upon this charge Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George!'
(Harry being Henry V and Saint George England's patron saint)
The quote above also is famous for "The game's afoot" as used by Sherlock Holmes.

4/24/1012:57 AM

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

El Loro...

(you're gonna see why my a level biology teacher would just end up snapping at me "because it is ok? Just accept that it does because it does!" soon)

If Shakespeare said that then St George was already the patron saint of England.. still lost as to what generated this decision....

I'm like a dog with a bone aren't I?

(on the plus side.... I have finally made my election decision... and am gonna go for Lib Dem...

)

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

Z.... so slayed was wrong... but slew sounds much much wronger!

(I would bollock my kids if they said wronger! )

Yogi19Member 10 years

Reference:

Z.... so slayed was wrong... but slew sounds much much wronger!

Ditty, according to "englishpage.com/irregularverbs" you can use slayed or slew for the simple past tense.

DirtyprettygirlthingMember

thank you Yogi!

slayed it is then!

ZaphodMember

Noddy Holder will be pleased

Z.

El LoroMember VIP10 yearsModerator

Reference

irtyprettygirlthing

If Shakespeare said that then St George was already the patron saint of England.. still lost as to what generated this decision....

As an aside, there have been stories that the image of Saint George appeared over the English troops at Agincourt. However, what is fact that Thomas Strickland carried the banner of Saint George at Agincourt. It is that banner in all probability that Shakespeare was referring to in Henry V's speech.

As far as Saint George becoming patron saint of England even though he had no connection with England, the exact reasons are lost in the mists of time. He is patron saint of many countries besides England including Russia, Portugal and Greece. He became popular during the time of the Crusades (1095 to 1291). That was in part due he being the patron saint of Palestine (as per Wikipedia). In 1222 the Synod of Oxford declared St George's day to be a feast day in England. The Order of the Garter which uses the banner of St George was created around 1344-1348. So by 1415 Agincourt, St George as patron saint of England was thoroughly established.

As another aside, does anyone know if the Shakespeare Red Bull advert has appeared before yesterday (23rd) or was that just clever timing?

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