That is my worry, yes! I hate to stereotype but in general Scotland has a history of producing the right sort of Labour MP. (I'm not sure if Blair is Scottish per se)

Blair was born in Edinburgh, Scotland^[8] on 6 May 1953,^[1] the second son of Leo and Hazel Blair (née Corscadden). Leo Blair, the illegitimate^[9] son of two English actors, had been adopted as a baby by Glasgow shipyard worker James Blair and his wife, Mary. Hazel Corscadden was the daughter of George Corscadden, a butcher and Orangeman who moved to Glasgow in 1916 but returned to (and later died in) Ballyshannon in 1923, where his wife, Sarah Margaret (née Lipsett), gave birth to Blair's mother, Hazel, above her family's grocery shop.^[10][11] George Corscadden was from a family of Protestant farmers in County Donegal, Ireland,^[12] who descended from Ulster-Scots settlers who took their family name from Garscadden,^{[citation needed]} now part of Glasgow.

Ok! Scotland has a history of producing both the right and the wrong sort of Labour MP. I'm not an expert.

Unfortunately I think history is the operative word -  these days we churn out Alexanders ! More the right wing sort of Labour MP than the right sort.. Labour in Scotland has been well and truly " modernised" .

 

Labour in a Westminster context doesn't need Scotland - I think the media is pushing the " stuck with the tories" line , highlighting that we tend to send more than 40 Labour MPs to Westminster , but forgetting the offset  of the other parties' MPs . Might be wrong, but I think the last time Scottish results made any difference was back in  Wilson's time - there's not enough Scottish seats (there'll be 52 I think at the next General Election) to influence the make-up of Westminster  . part of the argument for devolution - and independence - over the years has been that no matter what we vote, we get what England and Wales decide . During the Thatcher years , and since, Tories were pretty much an endangered species here( except in the landed gentry pockets!), but still got a majority from '79!

 

And if our votes DID ever become the deciding factor in which party governed the UK ,( say, England and Wales voted a narrow win for Labour, and we all went loopy and sent 52 Tories to Westminster, meaning you lot were stuck with a Tory government when you'd voted Labour)  there would be uproar ( like there was when Scottish Labour MPs voted through Blair's education fees nightmare for England and Wales) 

 

Dunno. I wish it was like back in the day , when we had politicians like , as katty mentioned , John Smith . What we have now  though is two main parties in the Westminster system - Tory , and diet Tory. I'm not even sure which one is which any more.

 

It's a difficult one isn't it?

If they declared a socialist paradise based on the oil, penicillin, tyres, and steam hammers, then I daresay we would be fighting for a place on the roof of the  11:15 to Waverley.

However if they had a government based on nationalism one would want to assist in building an Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart say from the Solway to Waalsend.Oh! Hang on.

I wish England could have an independence vote too.

I wish the top right could have an independence vote.

 

It all went wrong after the "harrying of the North."

I agree and I think the other parts of the UK have a right to vote on the Scottish decision too.

What if Scotland says Yes and England says No?

I would not like  to see the breakup of united kingdom it has worked well all these years .. why break up now, not 100% sure that it is what the majority of Scotland want either,but  if the Scottish people want independence they should be allowed have it, it would be interesting to see how the other parts of the United Kingdom felt about it though.. 

I think from what I have been hearing from various people that England most probably will say Yes.

From, at the moment anyway, it seems most Scots would say no. It would be interesting to hear views from other parts of the UK, but ultimately it should be Scotlands decision IMO

The point is that no-one knows what the question is. I think if a nationalist Scotland wanted to leave completely then that's an obvious yes.

But all this devo max, we'll give you some tax, but pay for our services, but I paid the milk bill, and you paid the window cleaners.... etc is utter utter carp. 

I agree Joe, its still a long time off tho. Alex Salmond, like him or loathe him, will do things in his own time. He is a wily old fox and wont be dictated to by Cameron and his like, as was noted on his recent visit. Cameron was sent home with his tail between his legs and looked rather foolish, probably frantically googling Salmonds "pig in a poke" comment!

but they all live down here anyways, well a significant amount of them, we could all go live up there, because it seems we get free  social care when we are old and free uni's , but it's a bit nippy i've heard.

A lot of English, Welsh and Irish live here too, and very welcome they are too! Nothing is free, takes a lot of work to prioritise who needs it and who doesnt. Think we are doing ok tho 

Me too.  An independent, Socialist Republic of England. 

No I mean, I wish England could be independent from Scotland and Wales.  I think I'd quite enjoy having a sense of national identity.

Good luck with that one 

Sorry spider I agree with you but phrased it badly so that it looked as if it was all about only the Scottish vote.  I too would like an independence vote for England, somehow England seems to have ended up the poor relation (I am sure others will have a different opinion on that but that is my view).

But the uni's are in Scotland Skylark.

Yes i know that squiggle x But nothing is really FREE, we all pay one way or another for that to happen. My sister works for the council as a home help for the elderly, as she has done for 16 years. the cut backs for help and general care is really scary now. Infact the council is now cutting back so much that the elderly and sick have to pay most of it by themselves, albeit thru DLA or other benefits. An elderly gent i know, who is in care once a month, to give his wife some respite pays £180. If they were to need both care, they would have to sell their house. This free nonsense doenst happen here, i can assure you x

Skylark the same thing is happening in England and on top of that our uni's charge and we have to pay for prescriptions etc.  The huge debt that the UK is in means that there are hard times all round.

i know squiggle, and we have a much smaller population. We are in charge of our health service and its quite right that prescriptions are free(well some some medication, not all) I hope England follows soon 

I wouldn't hold your breath Skylark, prescription charges have just gone up in England

 

A single item will rise to £7.65 from £7.40 from April 1 while basic NHS dental treatment is set to increase by 50p to £17.50.

But patients in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will still pay nothing."

 

April 1st very appropriate

Well thats sad squiggle, but to be fair, that is only people who are working and take NO state benefits. So people on working tax benefits, income support, pensions, people over 60.or 65 not sure, pay nothing, or reduced. Basic dental help does come in the same category does it not? NHS dental care is free to all the UK until aged 18, unless on benefits of some form or another? We dont have free dental care in Scotland, unless people are on benefits, then its reduced pro rata, according to income, as far as i know that is all over the UK ?

No I'm afraid its not as simple as that Skylark, unless you are on a specific type of benefit (and I'm not sure what it is because I know I don't qualify) then you have to pay for dental treatment.  All of my friends struggle greatly with paying dentists costs and spectacle charges.  I know that because we live in different countries you don't know how it is for the people in England but I do know that many many people in England are fed up with the difference in the way that people in this country are treated compared to those in the rest of the UK.

Well i will certainly stand corrected and look into that squiggle 

Had a looky. Scotland has its own powers, as such, re NHS, but it is UK, and the laws are such here as is there. We are still governed by Westminster. The benefit system still stands the UK over, re dental treatment, specs etc, determined by income, so with respect squiggle i am not fully understanding your argument 

Given we have a left of centre government at the moment Joe, I'd book your train ticket

I'd vote for that

( we could be independent socialist republic neighbours )

 

*waves my banner* me too 

The same eligibility criteria for free dental treatment apply in England and Scotland by the looks of it squiggle. 

Should have added - we don't pay for prescriptions as that was policy implemented by the Scottish government  and the devolved assemblies in Northern Ireland and Wales.

Like when Scotland voted Labour , England voted Tory, and we got Thatcher ?

!

What if Scotland says No and England says Yes! As I say, they'll be spending lots of time designing the questions and the way they are asked in order to produce an acceptable settlement. :cynic:

Skylark your point was that because those in England get free dental treatment that makes up for the free prescriptions uni's etc so I was just pointing out that many might benefit from free dental treatment and spectacles etc. but neither I or indeed any of my friends seem to benefit and I know that I pay  £47 every time I need a filling, I have to pay privately for the dental hygienist and as for the price of spectacles I dread having to go.  And I don't have a lot of money either, I qualify for Pension Credit because my income is so low but oddly enough the Pension Credit I am awarded doesn't actually cover free healthcare.

 

I know that there is a growing feeling in England that we are being unfairly treated in comparison to every other country in the UK and yes many do now want an England only parliament. 

That's an interesting way of looking at it squiggle. Round these parts we feel disadvantaged by that London. They always seem to have money to spend on infrastructure and fripperies. We seem to have to fight for a bus shelter. Mebbees when England play in a footie competition one feels a stir of passion, but the idea of having something in common like national identity doesn't appeal. Unless they give us our industry back mind.