I would have to understand the true definition of 'Soul' to answer this question Suzy.

and so would I

I think that the soul is the energy that keeps you alive, so animals must have them too.

I voted yes.

I believe that animals do have souls as they are as unique as we are

quote:

Originally posted by fairy_suzie:
I believe that animals do have souls as they are as unique as we are

I belive in Fairies and I am in LOVE with Cornwall.

yes

*glides in* YES THEY DO *small skeleton of a rat appears from under the cowled figures robes and looks at you all* SQUEEK!

I do and plants also.
Looking it up I found the word and definition for it...

Animism

quote:

Originally posted by demonickitten:

quote:

Originally posted by fairy_suzie:
I believe that animals do have souls as they are as unique as we are

I belive in Fairies and I am in LOVE with Cornwall.

Then at least we know 2 fairies exist

I know I'm soooooo lucky to live here, it's gorgeous

quote:

Originally posted by Syd:
I would have to understand the true definition of 'Soul' to answer this question Suzy.

I guess what I was trying to say is do you believe they go to "Heaven ".
I read that Pope John Paul 11 said that animals have souls.
"During a public audience the Holy Father affirmed that the animals, like men, were given the 'breath of life' by God. The Vatican squarely confronted this concept for the first time. "

In Islam I have been told this.

"Everything that Allah created has a soul."

English isn't my first language and please forgive my bad grammar or poor choice of words..

quote:

Originally posted by katya:
I think that the soul is the energy that keeps you alive, so animals must have them too.

Very interesting can you explain it more fully to me ?

quote:

Originally posted by King Kev:
I do and plants also.
Looking it up I found the word and definition for it...

Animism

Thank you I will look into that.

If the soul is that which animates the body, then all living things must have one

quote:

Originally posted by Syd:
I would have to understand the true definition of 'Soul' to answer this question Suzy.

I have taken it to mean awareness. I voted yes by the way. My proof I feel of this is that some 15 years ago I worked with horses. One Summers evening we had to call a vet out to put down a horse. The next day every horse I turned out to the fiels spooked at the spot where the horse had been put to sleep. I felt there was something going on there, even a sixth sense.

Jumbo Jimbo

That must of been freaky ..lol

I think animals have souls ..

quote:

Originally posted by Jumbo Jimbo:

quote:

Originally posted by Syd:
I would have to understand the true definition of 'Soul' to answer this question Suzy.

I have taken it to mean awareness. I voted yes by the way. My proof I feel of this is that some 15 years ago I worked with horses. One Summers evening we had to call a vet out to put down a horse. The next day every horse I turned out to the fiels spooked at the spot where the horse had been put to sleep. I felt there was something going on there, even a sixth sense.

Animals do live by their senses, not cluttered with words or the quest for knowledge and answers....so, yes, in that sense, they do have souls and I am sure are more open to seeing them than we are.

Goes to vote Yes.

Ants, bees and birds (any animal, insect or fish that group together ie in a swarm/nest) has a collective awareness.
Look at fish especially when they are being chased by something, they all move in the same direction at the same time.
Dont know if this is a soul and I struggle to figure out what I think a soul is. A bit like like pondering the shape of the universe, if it does have shape then there must be something beyond that.
My brain is gonna explode lol.

If you mean "soul" in the religious sense then NO.
But then neither do human beings.

There is no such thing.
And no god or heaven either.

I have 'felt' dead people...

quote:

Originally posted by Artymags:
If you mean "soul" in the religious sense then NO.
But then neither do human beings.

There is no such thing.
And no god or heaven either.

What do you think happens after death then ?
Do you believe we have an "energy force" that is released ?

quote:

Originally posted by Suzy:

quote:

Originally posted by Artymags:
If you mean "soul" in the religious sense then NO.
But then neither do human beings.

There is no such thing.
And no god or heaven either.

What do you think happens after death then ?
Do you believe we have an "energy force" that is released ?

No, of course not.

quote:

Originally posted by Syd:
I have 'felt' dead people...

Worked in a morgue by any chance lol.

quote:

Originally posted by Artymags:

quote:

Originally posted by Suzy:

quote:

Originally posted by Artymags:
If you mean "soul" in the religious sense then NO.
But then neither do human beings.

There is no such thing.
And no god or heaven either.

What do you think happens after death then ?
Do you believe we have an "energy force" that is released ?

No, of course not.

Please explain what you do think happens after death as I am genuinely interested.

this is my belief:

my definition of soul leads me to vote NO.
I don't believe in souls. we are chemical beings with conciousness. A soul infers belief in a greater being like a god, and a place or plane other than the earthly one that we inhabit.

Other animals have conciousness too, although not all do. plants do not have conciousness because they do not have a central nervous system. Plants can react to their environment (light, gravity, damaged cells) but not in a concious decisive way.

quote:

Originally posted by King Kev: A bit like like pondering the shape of the universe, if it does have shape then there must be something beyond that.
My brain is gonna explode lol.

it might be a four dimensional doughnut, in which case, in the conventional 3 plane/dimensional awareness we have, there is nothing beyond. it is like a 2 dimensional animal wondering what is beyond the area of a sphere. in the 2 dimensions, there is no beyond. it goes on and on and eventually comes back to the beginning. just like our 3d view on the universe in a 4d reality.

quote:

Originally posted by Syd:
I have 'felt' dead people...

I think that's against the law but I'm no snitch.

quote:

Originally posted by Suzy:

quote:

Originally posted by Syd:
I have 'felt' dead people...

I think that's against the law but I'm no snitch.

quote:

Originally posted by Suzy:

quote:

Originally posted by Artymags:

quote:

Originally posted by Suzy:

quote:

Originally posted by Artymags:
If you mean "soul" in the religious sense then NO.
But then neither do human beings.

There is no such thing.
And no god or heaven either.

What do you think happens after death then ?
Do you believe we have an "energy force" that is released ?

No, of course not.

Please explain what you do think happens after death as I am genuinely interested.

Well NOTHING!
All our consciousness and "personality" is contained in the brain.
What makes us what we are is purely the way our brain functions.
We know this is true because any damage to the brain can result in the person becoming quite a different personality.
Therefore our personality or "id" - what some people call the "soul" is totally and intrinsically part of the brain, - its pathways, neurons and chemical balance.

Our personality isn't a separate thing perched somewhere behind the eyes and able to migrate into another body or able to survive somewhere apart from the body.
That idea is called "dualism" and is beloved of fiction writers - where two people swap personalities for instance.
It doesn't and CANNOT really happen.

Therefore when a person dies, the brain too dies and decays and with it all consciousness.
There is NOTHING after death.
It will be just like it was before we were born.

"Nothingness for ever and ever".

quote:

Originally posted by BeerBelle:

quote:

Originally posted by King Kev: A bit like like pondering the shape of the universe, if it does have shape then there must be something beyond that.
My brain is gonna explode lol.

it might be a four dimensional doughnut, in which case, in the conventional 3 plane/dimensional awareness we have, there is nothing beyond. it is like a 2 dimensional animal wondering what is beyond the area of a sphere. in the 2 dimensions, there is no beyond. it goes on and on and eventually comes back to the beginning. just like our 3d view on the universe in a 4d reality.

Errr...4 dimensions???
We need a thread on quantum mechanics lol.

I understand what you mean with the doughnut shape but 4 dimensions?
And when scientists say the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into?
Sorry to ask but you seem to know a little about the subject.

quote:

Originally posted by Artymags:
"Nothingness for ever and ever".

I don't remember it being nothingness before i was born!

I think the poem "Aubade", by Philip Larkin really says it all.
This is just a section of it....

quote:

"I work all day, and get half drunk at night.
Waking at four to soundless dark, I stare.
In time the curtain edges will grow light.
Till then I see what’s really always there:
Unresting death, a whole day nearer now,
Making all thought impossible but how
And where and when I shall myself die.
Arid interrogation: yet the dread
Of dying, and being dead,
Flashes afresh to hold and horrify.

The mind blanks at the glare. Not in remorse
- The good not used, the love not given, time
Torn off unused - nor wretchedly because
An only life can take so long to climb
Clear of its wrong beginnings, and may never:
But at the total emptiness forever,
The sure extinction that we travel to
And shall be lost in always. Not to be here,
Not to be anywhere,
And soon; nothing more terrible, nothing more true.

This is a special way of being afraid
No trick dispels. Religion used to try,
That vast moth-eaten musical brocade
Created to pretend we never die,
And specious stuff that says no rational being
Can fear a thing it cannot feel, not seeing
that this is what we fear - no sight, no sound,
No touch or taste or smell, nothing to think with,
Nothing to love or link with,
The anaesthetic from which none come round

quote:

Originally posted by King Kev:
Errr...4 dimensions???
We need a thread on quantum mechanics lol.

I understand what you mean with the doughnut shape but 4 dimensions?
And when scientists say the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into?
Sorry to ask but you seem to know a little about the subject.

you are right it is very difficult to explain without diagrams and lots of detail, so here is an analogy:

if you were a 2d animal on the surface of a balloon you would see it as going on forever. no boundaries and yet if you travelleed in one direction you would eventually get back to the beginning.

(this equates to us, in our universe. except we are 3d but cannot see the 4th dimension. if we travel far enough we get back to the start)

back to the 2d animal on the balloons surface:
the distance travelled could get bigger and bigger before you got back to the beginning if the balloon was being blown up. from the 2d point of view there are still no boundaries.

(but WE know the balloon is expanding because we see the next dimension). same happens in the 4d expanding universe of which we can only see three of it's dimensions. It does not expand INTO anything, except if you see the next dimension

quote:

Originally posted by King Kev:
A bit like like pondering the shape of the universe, if it does have shape then there must be something beyond that.
My brain is gonna explode lol.

NOOOOOOO my ex used to freak me out when i was dunk by telling me to think of the end of the universe, freaks me out enough trying to think when i am sober.

quote:

Originally posted by BeerBelle:

quote:

Originally posted by Suzy:

quote:

Originally posted by Syd:
I have 'felt' dead people...

I think that's against the law but I'm no snitch.

Mocketh my Soul not....see, I bare my soul and you lot laugh...

quote:

Originally posted by Artymags:
I think the poem "Aubade", by Philip Larkin really says it all.
This is just a section of it....

quote:

"I work all day, and get half drunk at night.
Waking at four to soundless dark, I stare.
In time the curtain edges will grow light.
Till then I see what’s really always there:
Unresting death, a whole day nearer now,
Making all thought impossible but how
And where and when I shall myself die.
Arid interrogation: yet the dread
Of dying, and being dead,
Flashes afresh to hold and horrify.

The mind blanks at the glare. Not in remorse
- The good not used, the love not given, time
Torn off unused - nor wretchedly because
An only life can take so long to climb
Clear of its wrong beginnings, and may never:
But at the total emptiness forever,
The sure extinction that we travel to
And shall be lost in always. Not to be here,
Not to be anywhere,
And soon; nothing more terrible, nothing more true.

This is a special way of being afraid
No trick dispels. Religion used to try,
That vast moth-eaten musical brocade
Created to pretend we never die,
And specious stuff that says no rational being
Can fear a thing it cannot feel, not seeing
that this is what we fear - no sight, no sound,
No touch or taste or smell, nothing to think with,
Nothing to love or link with,
The anaesthetic from which none come round

Wow thank you for that. Very powerful imagery in that poem.
I do admire his work.

There is NOTHING after death.
It will be just like it was before we were born.

"Nothingness for ever and ever".[/QUOTE]

Does that concern you, does it make you afraid to die?

quote:

Originally posted by Artymags:
I think the poem "Aubade", by Philip Larkin really says it all.

he seems to be quite perturbed by death; but if he knows it is just an ending of the stream of conciousness i am unsure as to why he should fear it?? how can you fear nothingness? (and by the way, people of religion think it gives them comfort to think thst there is something after death, whereas for me it gives me comfort to know there is not. who wants to be judged or transported somewhere without all your personal belongings ?!!

quote:

Originally posted by Syd:

quote:

Originally posted by BeerBelle:

quote:

Originally posted by Suzy:

quote:

Originally posted by Syd:
I have 'felt' dead people...

I think that's against the law but I'm no snitch.

Mocketh my Soul not....see, I bare my soul and you lot laugh...

i'm laughing at suzi.