quote:

Originally posted by Queen of the High Teas:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by Hollygolightly:
My husband and I are trying to adopt and we are being put through the ringer. I appreciate that checks must be made, particularly where such an important issue is at stake, but the intrusive, explicit questioning is awful.

yes, it does get pretty explicit at times doesnt it?

Holly & BBBS I think you both deserve a big & for all that you have been prepared to sacrifice in order to give a child in the care system a home. I admire you both greatly for it.

That sentiment goes for me too.

quote:

Originally posted by FGG Aka Crocodile Rock:
I think a lot of people in there were trying to morally outrage each other.

Wanting to burn her with no trial cos of the charge...what next...where would that end?

Sainsbury's being allowed to hang shoplifters?

well luckily the posters in this thread seem to all have iq's larger than davinas shoe size because all views have been expressed and dicussed in an adult manner.

@daniel, i dont think anyone thought you were but as each year passes its where we are heading more and more in the name of protecting ourselves from ourselves.

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:

quote:

Originally posted by Queen of the High Teas:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by Hollygolightly:
My husband and I are trying to adopt and we are being put through the ringer. I appreciate that checks must be made, particularly where such an important issue is at stake, but the intrusive, explicit questioning is awful.

yes, it does get pretty explicit at times doesnt it?

Holly & BBBS I think you both deserve a big & for all that you have been prepared to sacrifice in order to give a child in the care system a home. I admire you both greatly for it.

That sentiment goes for me too.

cheers queenie and hyacinth.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Just to be explicit, I wasn't suggesting we install CCTV everywhere and operate an Orwellian surveillance society. I was just trashing the idea that we must continually tighten things up and regulate and check every time something like this occurs until we get to zero incidents. Shit happens, and sometimes to kids. That's life, I'm afraid. Travel outside the normal holiday destinations and you very quickly realise that we have it very, very good in this country, especially with our current justice system, and things could be very different.

Never really spoken to you before, just saying hello

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:

quote:

Originally posted by Queen of the High Teas:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by Hollygolightly:
My husband and I are trying to adopt and we are being put through the ringer. I appreciate that checks must be made, particularly where such an important issue is at stake, but the intrusive, explicit questioning is awful.

yes, it does get pretty explicit at times doesnt it?

Holly & BBBS I think you both deserve a big & for all that you have been prepared to sacrifice in order to give a child in the care system a home. I admire you both greatly for it.

That sentiment goes for me too.

Thanks a mill Hyacinth

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Just to be explicit, I wasn't suggesting we install CCTV everywhere and operate an Orwellian surveillance society. I was just trashing the idea that we must continually tighten things up and regulate and check every time something like this occurs until we get to zero incidents. Shit happens, and sometimes to kids. That's life, I'm afraid. Travel outside the normal holiday destinations and you very quickly realise that we have it very, very good in this country, especially with our current justice system, and things could be very different.

I very much agree with you DanJ.
Another issue I have is the fact that some of the more eccentric posters seem to think that they can cherry pick ideas from other societies, whilst retaining the bits that they approve of.

quote:

Originally posted by ~Orchid~:
Never really spoken to you before, just saying hello

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Just to be explicit, I wasn't suggesting we install CCTV everywhere and operate an Orwellian surveillance society. I was just trashing the idea that we must continually tighten things up and regulate and check every time something like this occurs until we get to zero incidents. Shit happens, and sometimes to kids. That's life, I'm afraid. Travel outside the normal holiday destinations and you very quickly realise that we have it very, very good in this country, especially with our current justice system, and things could be very different.

I very much agree with you DanJ.
Another issue I have is the fact that some of the more eccentric posters seem to think that they can cherry pick ideas from other societies, whilst retaining the bits that they approve of.

something i've seen a lot of recently

but seriously there have been a few who have been consistent daniel is certainly one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by FGG Aka Crocodile Rock:
The thing is...you can never stop abuse, all you can do is make sure proper punishments and deterrents are in place as well as the police checks which I think is about as far as they can go...

I completely agree.
You can't produce a pristine sanitised world for everyone.Living is a risk.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Just to be explicit, I wasn't suggesting we install CCTV everywhere and operate an Orwellian surveillance society. I was just trashing the idea that we must continually tighten things up and regulate and check every time something like this occurs until we get to zero incidents. Shit happens, and sometimes to kids. That's life, I'm afraid. Travel outside the normal holiday destinations and you very quickly realise that we have it very, very good in this country, especially with our current justice system, and things could be very different.

Surely you could never get zero incidents.Shit happens...nasty shit for that matter...because we are human and imperfect.

quote:

Originally posted by Mazzystar:

quote:

Originally posted by FGG Aka Crocodile Rock:
The thing is...you can never stop abuse, all you can do is make sure proper punishments and deterrents are in place as well as the police checks which I think is about as far as they can go...

I completely agree.
You can't produce a pristine sanitised world for everyone.Living is a risk.

Indeed, but you can certainly reduce the risks

quote:

Originally posted by Mazzystar:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Just to be explicit, I wasn't suggesting we install CCTV everywhere and operate an Orwellian surveillance society. I was just trashing the idea that we must continually tighten things up and regulate and check every time something like this occurs until we get to zero incidents. Shit happens, and sometimes to kids. That's life, I'm afraid. Travel outside the normal holiday destinations and you very quickly realise that we have it very, very good in this country, especially with our current justice system, and things could be very different.

Surely you could never get zero incidents.Shit happens...nasty shit for that matter...because we are human and imperfect.

exactly but that doesnt stop people from wishing that it could be so in the case of children.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
exactly but that doesnt stop people from wishing that it could be so in the case of children.

Yup!

The reality is things like this go on, they always have and always will..... but it would be wonderful to have some sort of child amnesty where they all grew up happy and content.

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:

quote:

Originally posted by Mazzystar:

quote:

Originally posted by FGG Aka Crocodile Rock:
The thing is...you can never stop abuse, all you can do is make sure proper punishments and deterrents are in place as well as the police checks which I think is about as far as they can go...

I completely agree.
You can't produce a pristine sanitised world for everyone.Living is a risk.

Indeed, but you can certainly reduce the risks

But this is my point.
I agree risks shold be made an absolute minimum,but people have got to have freedom too and people need to take risks and not have every decision made for them(This is a general poin,not specifically about this case).Minimise riks,yes,but not to the extent where every movement in your life must be controlled by surveillance and papaer work.We have to have a balancing act between the two rights of freedom and security.We cant always get it 100% right.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by Mazzystar:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Just to be explicit, I wasn't suggesting we install CCTV everywhere and operate an Orwellian surveillance society. I was just trashing the idea that we must continually tighten things up and regulate and check every time something like this occurs until we get to zero incidents. Shit happens, and sometimes to kids. That's life, I'm afraid. Travel outside the normal holiday destinations and you very quickly realise that we have it very, very good in this country, especially with our current justice system, and things could be very different.

Surely you could never get zero incidents.Shit happens...nasty shit for that matter...because we are human and imperfect.

exactly but that doesnt stop people from wishing that it could be so in the case of children.

Oh,no doubt BBBS.But sometimes the red tape gets in the way of life.

quote:

Originally posted by *Pesky-Pixie*:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
exactly but that doesnt stop people from wishing that it could be so in the case of children.

Yup!

The reality is things like this go on, they always have and always will..... but it would be wonderful to have some sort of child amnesty where they all grew up happy and content.

indeed it would although i am of the opinion that society actually makes these cases worse for the victims because of the way we tend to react (or in some cases over react), as you say paedophilia has been with us seemingly forever, there have been times where children were not believed and there have been times when some children knew that we'd believe them no matter the accusations they made, there have also been times when it was acceptable in society (in greco / roman times and in certain parts of the middle east) if we took an act of rape out of the equation as that is in its nature a damaging act could we be doing more damage by not just treating the child as a victim (which they are) but by really pushing the victim culture onto them leading to children actually claiming to be victims when they werent, something that happened all to often recently especially with teachers.

quote:

Originally posted by china:
i read that one mom complained to OFSTED cos her 2year old lad refused to go back there
and that was TWO months ago!
OFSTED shoulda been there the day after receiving the complaint
and God knows why that little kid didnt wanna go back

Ofsted will not investigate a complaint of a child not wanting to go to nursery, and they have confirmed that that complaint had nothing whatsoever to do with what is in the news now. I work in a nursery and if they investigated every child not wanting to be left they would spend every minute of the day there!

quote:

Originally posted by UD:

quote:

Originally posted by china:
i read that one mom complained to OFSTED cos her 2year old lad refused to go back there
and that was TWO months ago!
OFSTED shoulda been there the day after receiving the complaint
and God knows why that little kid didnt wanna go back

Ofsted will not investigate a complaint of a child not wanting to go to nursery, and they have confirmed that that complaint had nothing whatsoever to do with what is in the news now. I work in a nursery and if they investigated every child not wanting to be left they would spend every minute of the day there!

Specially as at that age loads of kids have to be prised off thier mothers necks anyway!

Exactly FGG.

quote:

Originally posted by Mazzystar:


But this is my point.
I agree risks shold be made an absolute minimum,but people have got to have freedom too and people need to take risks and not have every decision made for them(This is a general poin,not specifically about this case).Minimise riks,yes,but not to the extent where every movement in your life must be controlled by surveillance and papaer work.We have to have a balancing act between the two rights of freedom and security.We cant always get it 100% right.

No unfortunately. Where a child is concerned, we cannot afford to take any risk.

quote:

Originally posted by UD:

quote:

Originally posted by china:
i read that one mom complained to OFSTED cos her 2year old lad refused to go back there
and that was TWO months ago!
OFSTED shoulda been there the day after receiving the complaint
and God knows why that little kid didnt wanna go back

Ofsted will not investigate a complaint of a child not wanting to go to nursery, and they have confirmed that that complaint had nothing whatsoever to do with what is in the news now. I work in a nursery and if they investigated every child not wanting to be left they would spend every minute of the day there!

very true LOL!

but i doubt the mom wrote 'my lad wont go nusery, waddya gonna do about it?'

there must have been more to it-but i suppose we wont know for a while yet

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
No unfortunately. Where a child is concerned, we cannot afford to take any risk.

Couldn't disagree more (you'd be surprised to hear )

We can't stop children having normal childhoods through fear.

That's just unfair...and what kind of adults would they grow into without the normal developments through play, mixing with people, experiences...scraping their knees in the playground?

We cannot over react to these thankfully rare occurrences and wrap kids in cotton wool.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

indeed it would although i am of the opinion that society actually makes these cases worse for the victims because of the way we tend to react (or in some cases over react), as you say paedophilia has been with us seemingly forever, there have been times where children were not believed and there have been times when some children knew that we'd believe them no matter the accusations they made, there have also been times when it was acceptable in society (in greco / roman times and in certain parts of the middle east) if we took an act of rape out of the equation as that is in its nature a damaging act could we be doing more damage by not just treating the child as a victim (which they are) but by really pushing the victim culture onto them leading to children actually claiming to be victims when they werent, something that happened all to often recently especially with teachers.

Yeah, I know paedophilia has been an accepted practice through the ages has indeed has incest.

I agree with your take on our victim culture.

It seems that if people make false accusations they must therefore have 'issues' making them a victim. Sometimes people are just liars and there is no-one to blame other than the individual making the false claims.

quote:

Originally posted by *Pesky-Pixie*:

Yeah, I know paedophilia has been an accepted practice through the ages has indeed has incest.

I am not so sure about that. Accepted practice? Not in recent civilised societies, no.

quote:

Originally posted by electric6:
Couldn't disagree more (you'd be surprised to hear )

We can't stop children having normal childhoods through fear.

That's just unfair...and what kind of adults would they grow into without the normal developments through play, mixing with people, experiences...scraping their knees in the playground?

We cannot over react to these thankfully rare occurrences and wrap kids in cotton wool.

That's a sort of abuse on its own, I'd say. Distorting the lives of our kids because of our lack of appreciation of the true level of risk.

quote:

Originally posted by electric6:
Couldn't disagree more (you'd be surprised to hear )

We can't stop children having normal childhoods through fear.

That's just unfair...and what kind of adults would they grow into without the normal developments through play, mixing with people, experiences...scraping their knees in the playground?

We cannot over react to these thankfully rare occurrences and wrap kids in cotton wool.

I don't think there's enough cotton wool around to protect them anyway.

My son and his friends went on a wildlife trip to the moors today.....they had to call the air ambulance because one kid had pushed another kid down a slope and he was knocked unconscious (not my son)..... and they were supervised with the correct ratio of teachers to kids!

quote:

Originally posted by electric6:
Couldn't disagree more (you'd be surprised to hear )

We can't stop children having normal childhoods through fear.

That's just unfair...and what kind of adults would they grow into without the normal developments through play, mixing with people, experiences...scraping their knees in the playground?

We cannot over react to these thankfully rare occurrences and wrap kids in cotton wool.

I agree. Children need to face risk to be able to make suitable judgements for themselves.

What's happened to the other thread?

quote:

Originally posted by *Pesky-Pixie*:
I don't think there's enough cotton wool around to protect them anyway.

*spots a money making scheme here*

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
What's happened to the other thread?

Troll tank

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by *Pesky-Pixie*:
I don't think there's enough cotton wool around to protect them anyway.

*spots a money making scheme here*

Michelin man styling?!

quote:

Originally posted by FGG Aka Crocodile Rock:

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
What's happened to the other thread?

Troll tank

The troll was long gone though! Probably just as well, I suppose. Bit, erm, risky leaving it around. You never know what might happen.

quote:

Originally posted by UD:

quote:

Originally posted by electric6:
Couldn't disagree more (you'd be surprised to hear )

We can't stop children having normal childhoods through fear.

That's just unfair...and what kind of adults would they grow into without the normal developments through play, mixing with people, experiences...scraping their knees in the playground?

We cannot over react to these thankfully rare occurrences and wrap kids in cotton wool.

I agree. Children need to face risk to be able to make suitable judgements for themselves.

Exactly!
The statistics say that the majority of cases of murder and abuse are at the hands of people either within the family or by trusted family friends.

Yes Daniel, I'd agree with that.

When I was doing my TA training a woman came into school one day effing and jeffing at the Head that her daughter was NOT to do PE at all. On further investigation it turned out that as it was an Infants school we had the usual practice of the kids doing gym in the hall in their pants and vests.

She was horrified, the Head suggested that if she was unhappy the Mother could provide the kid with alternative kit but she HAD to do PE...there were no medical reasons why she should be exempt.

The Mother agreed eventually to trackie bottoms and t shirt but her parting shot was "She's not allowed to run around in shorts and stuff at home so she's not doing it here!"

I found that so sad

The other thread is in the troll tank

Unfortunately you get these low-lives attracted to jobs where they are put in charge of looking after children, old people, mentally impaired people - vulnerable people who are most at risk. It really scares me that these jobs are open to such abuse.

quote:

Originally posted by watchinittoomuch:
The other thread is in the troll tank

Not sure why?

quote:

Originally posted by *Pesky-Pixie*:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
*spots a money making scheme here*

Michelin man styling?!

We could all wear these!

quote:

Originally posted by *Pesky-Pixie*:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

indeed it would although i am of the opinion that society actually makes these cases worse for the victims because of the way we tend to react (or in some cases over react), as you say paedophilia has been with us seemingly forever, there have been times where children were not believed and there have been times when some children knew that we'd believe them no matter the accusations they made, there have also been times when it was acceptable in society (in greco / roman times and in certain parts of the middle east) if we took an act of rape out of the equation as that is in its nature a damaging act could we be doing more damage by not just treating the child as a victim (which they are) but by really pushing the victim culture onto them leading to children actually claiming to be victims when they werent, something that happened all to often recently especially with teachers.

Yeah, I know paedophilia has been an accepted practice through the ages has indeed has incest.

I agree with your take on our victim culture.

It seems that if people make false accusations they must therefore have 'issues' making them a victim. Sometimes people are just liars and there is no-one to blame other than the individual making the false claims.

well as someone who was threatend with the police for child abuse (not sexual) by a social worker i'm very glad my name and details were not published because of the hysterical response from some people on here today over this case of course our lawyers quickly made the problem go away but the accusation was made, now does that mean i've ever had anything to o with harming a child? absolutely not, but if i hadnt been in a position to get a solicitor involved at the very beginning i could have found myself under arrest (although i do trust the justice system enough to believe i would not have been charged).

my "crime"? i allowed our boys to climb trees and one fell out during a water fight and was fairly badly injured (broke 2 arms and a leg), they still climb trees, its called being children.

did you know by the way that you can end up on the sex offenders register for getting caught urinating in a public place? i'm pretty sure that it wasnt what it was designed for but is yet another reason for not allowing general access to the register.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
We could all wear these!

I think this looks more substantial.