Yes, but then again....they never had any for me in the first place..........me and religion don't get on

I voted maybe. That's because I think it's possible that those outside of the Catholic faith see reasons because of all that's come out over the years to think so. There's also a possibility that those inside the faith are seeing it in a new light even if they've not been personally affected. But I'm sure there will be others in the faith that will carry on regardless as their faith is important to them and because they aren't a part of the problem.


I hope whatever needs to come to light does so and that it's dealt with appropriately. Those who's lives have been affected deserve to feel a sense of justice

If one uses this definition of credibility:

I voted maybe..... cos it has for me....but then `i'm not Catholic.

I voted Yes. The Pope's so called letter of apology was outrageous, littered with excuses and minimised the cover up which allowed for continuing abuse and the silencing of the victims as 'mistakes' where in reality it was a concerted effort to disregard the children and protect the catholic church, a directive that came from the top. His pr exercise has badly backfired imo. And then his personal preacher comparing the criticism levelled at the RC church to the suffering of the Jews! No Cantalamessa, the criticisms are entirely justified  (I am RC btw)

I speak to someone on MSN, we had a debate about the church and one of the points that came up was 'do you know what the age of consent is in other European countries' I said no but I could guess at pretty low, he said twelve . That is just wrong!!

Onetoo, it is not as low as 12 in any European Country, other than, interestingly,the Vatican State!

In Spain the age of consent is 13. To pose another view, in India young girl below the age of 13 are promised to boys/men of an older age to them, that's not right either.

Lets remember however that these children who were abused by clergy weren't consenting to anything, they were sexually assaulted /raped

Very true Super, and knowing a few women who were raped as a child I know how damaging that is when they become adults, of any age. Edit to say.  So far in life I've not had a man tell me he was raped, even if any man I've ever known had that happened to him I understand why it could be more difficult for them to talk about it. For me it would be no different if it was a female or male that was raped, the consequences through adult life can be the same in one way or another. Btw I too was raised Catholic and schooled in a Convent with visiting priests from time to time. For me as a child I was happy with what I taught. As an adult I now have a different belief system but never discount some things I became aware of back then, they still help me today and I can integrate them with my different belief system when appropriate.

YR, one of the things that seems never to be explicitly mentioned is that by senior clergy making these children, (male and female,) not speak of what happened, that this effectively will have prevented them from  talking to friends or family or access any therapeutic help, not to gossip or to bring the catholic church into disrepute, but to get help. It's an outrage,"worthy of belief or confidence; trustworthy" I think not

Super what's understood by me through the women I've known is that when a child is raped, by whomever, the children are usually threatened with words like "you won't be believed" "this is a secret" oh so many controlling things are said to children to prevent them speaking out. The guilt is so often that when they are adults is that they took part even though they were children and had no choice, so rarely is the guilt with the rapist. Whether it's those from a religious belief, family, a stranger or whoever it's not the label of the person that's important, it's that a child has been used and abused for personal satisfaction.

Yes YR I agree. What I was trying to get across was that, despite that, some children/ parents did have the courage to tell, they went to senior clergy who they thought that they could trust, who they thought would do something and these senior clergy also threatened them and silenced them, thus compounding any feelings of guilt etc. Some were even threatened with excommunication if they said anything!

That's really sad Super that they would be intimidated in that way. I really hope that anyone who finds themselves in such a situation will find the strength to overcome the fear and intimidation and speak their truth. Truth is what really matters, not lies, coverups, fear and intimidation etc, it takes strength sometimes for those to speak their truth, but they owe it to themselves and others to do so,

I just don't get where the has the Catholic church lost all credibility and the age of consent got mixed up..Cathilic Priests have to take a vow of celibacy (no sex with anyone especially children)..
I voted yes..I'm spiritual but don't get all the *come to our church and give us money and god will love you and let you into his heaven*..The worse thing about the Catholic faith is the confesional..you tell me your secret and I'll use it to abuse you..Children start their confesional at the age of 7yrs old..so wrong....

They also went to the Guarda and they went to the Priests and the Priests shut them up but we have cases going on where they were involved....

They could have salvaged some, but then they started blaming the whole thing on a global media conspiracy, or likening the trouble they're now in to the persecution of Jews during the Holocaust..

I have been hearing and reading horrible theings about the C/C for years now, including families in Irleand who but their daughters in convents for the slighest thing. One famous lady who wrote about it when she "escaped" was put in one for years becuase she went to the cinima on her own! this was done with the knowledge of her doctor, even though on "examining her" (YUK) she was found to still be "entire".. these girls had no possession' s or money of their own but were made to work at things like lace making which was sold to places like harrods, "famous Irish Lace" indeed.
I have nothing but contempt for the entire religion from top to bottem and personally would like to see the Pope chucked out, if he does not "resign" his job for life. they should give away all the wealth of the Catholic church to the hungry and the poor and live out the rest of thir lives serving the same, if not in prison, where they should be, for life.

sorry, I did edit the above and sort out my typeing but it would not post!

Just a wild stab in the dark here Forgetmenot, but I'm taking a guess that you voted yes!Interesting point re the Pope should be expected to resign, if we compare this to say a Local Authority for e.g. the public would expect, the wo/man at the top to go

I voted yes.

But I have to say the CofE is in no position to comment on other religions as I suspect abuses of this kind occur across all religions.

I voted "No!" I don't really understand organised dictatorships of this type. As the great man once said, "If you want to talk to God then go direct!"

So you voted no 'cos they didn't have any credibility to lose GJ?
Hi btwno good bargains in your Costcutter today-  shloer,  BLOODY SHLOER, I haven't had a ruddy drink since Ash Wednesday

I just cycled there and back for several bottles of "Hen!"

Is it beer o'clock?

Good point Pengs...........and this is why religion to me is a whole heap of...............

No I'm not convinced of that ..............in the CofE relogion the clergy can marry and have sexual relationships ......surely it's this whole vow of celibacy that leads to the abuse of children IMO. If a vicar/minister is 'allowed' an outlet I would have thought he'd be far less likely to engage in sexual activity with a minor.

omg i read that as charlotte church   i need to go to specsavers  ......... ASAP , i was desperate to know what she had done too lol lol

I

I read it as Charlotte Church too Madamski, and ignored it for ages 


Now I know it's the catholic church.......I'm ignoring it again    No offence to anyone BTW.

I voted Yes.
I believe in God,
I don't believe in men or women, just because they happened to have joined a religious order and became priests or nuns. Some nun's are vicious as are some priests.

I have voted yes. I was a catholic until the recent past, and I will never ever forgive the church for the atrocities it allowed to happen in my diocese alone, never mind Ireland and the rest of the world.The thing is, people are holding up the CofE as an example of how to run a  religion by letting vicars marry and have kids.I also personally know CofE vicars that are paedophiles. Paedos  are in every walk of life, and quite a lot of them have wives and families, so letting catholic priests marry will not stop the abuse.The homosexual ones won't want to marry a woman anyway, so allowing wives and families will not stop the evil, abusive men that join the priesthood just to give them easy access to excercise their deviances.

there may be a few good men in the catholic church, who were as outraged by these current events as we were, but that can't counteract the  ignoble spectacle of the leaders of the church,the more high thinking morally unreproachable ,leaders  being  very concerned about the welfare and well being of it's paedophile priests, rather than give any thought to the suffering of the victims.
it's repugnant in all it's aspects, the abuse, the cover up, the lack of  compassion and now the audacity of some priests to be whining  on tv about the archbishop of canterbury making  the statement  of lost credibility.

blinkered, ineffective,cowardly and dishonest, hardly a recipe for credibility.

In Matthew 18.6 we read "But whoso offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him tjat a millstone were hanged around his neck, and that he were drowned in the depths of the sea". There is a similar verse in Like 17.2 wgich reads "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than he should offend one of these little ones."

I'm not suggesting that we should go out and start drowning any paedophile as Jesus is not saying that. In biblical times, this was a standard form of capital punishment which was carried out by the authorities.

However it is clear that any priest or nun who carries out any form of child abuse has committed one of the worst sins possible and will in due course have to atone for their sins in the next life. It is also clear that to cover up such a sin is almost as bad a sin.

So there is little doubt that unless the Roman Catholic Church can make a complete confession and make penance, that it is in extremely serious peril of total disintegration.

I was speaking to my elderly aunt, who is a practising Roman Catholic, about this yesterday and she didn't seem to know very much about it at all, and didn't know, for e.g. any real detail of the Pope's letter. She also said that she was surprised that it hadn't been mentioned at church, either by the priest or by her many churchgoing friends over coffee etc. Which gives me to wonder, is this, amongst practising RCs in England, just another in a long line of reported 'abuse scandals' which hasn't really had that much impact on them?

Same here. I never liked the idea that you bought a few things for the Church and you were saved! Also went to a Catholic service once and I found it awful all the"we're not worthy" stuff 

I don't subscribe to any organised religion.....but that RC scandal takes the biscuit on how not to run one

I feel strongly that those who have covered up for generations from the top town, ARE as bad as the perpetrators becuase they have sent out a message to all involved thatsuch behavior is sanctioned and that the victims do not matter at all. they are saying priests all the way up to the Pope himself can be forgiven any thing or more to the point don't even need forgiveness like those thy see as ordinary mortals . They are all digustingly corrupt and hide behind the power they have invested in them selves. I think all RC followers need to have a very serious hard long think about what has God got to do with this, why are thse people blindly following the doctrine taught them?

I thought the idea of buying what are called indulgences to gain salvation had gone out generations ago. Common sense says that if a sinner buys indulgences in the hope of obtaining salvation but keeps on sinning is unlikely to actually get salvation. In the same way as a deathbed confession wouldn't work unless the confessor is genuinely repentant. It doesn't make any difference what the sinner does or says - God knows what is truly in that person's mind.