No thanks.

We have enough executions in London already. 

Daily Mail readers look away now

No, never. 

It is, in my opinion, a barbaric practice that has no place in an (allegedly) civilized society.

Agrees with Avalon above ^^ people have been hanged who were found later to be innocent.. 

yes, for a small minority of criminals whose acts are beyond society's tolerance and whose guilt is beyond dispute.

Fred and Rose West, Ian Huntley, Myra Hindley etc

Hi Carnelian   I know what you are saying about those vile people above I would prefer our justice system to be more like America were killers are concerned,to keep them in jail for the rest of their lives locked up in solitary confinement no fringe benefits like tv in their cells etc ..unlike ours.. and stay there until they die ...

DONT talk to me about American justice! (joke about a sore subject,  incase you have no idea what im talking about marguerita)

Tricky one, I agree with Carnelian. I realise im in a minority but thats the way it is. I know if someone hurt my child or close loved ones, I would want them dead. Harsh but true.

Lol Gypsie I think I do know what you are talking about I mean once they were in jail and proven guilty ..

state sanctioned murder is still murder whatever way you look at it. .

shouldn't we also execute the executioners for murder too ?

^ this

^ and this

Succinct really

i don't believe in the death penalty ( however should anyone harm my children/grandchildren i would think otherwise!) but do believe prisons should be about punishment, i dislike much of american culture but they do have the right prison regime - no soft cushy number just harsh reality

Did anyone watch that prison program that was on recently? I caught one and was horrified that managers from local hotels and businesses went in to offer the inmates jobs once they left prison

Sorry but i think thats all back to front, they go into jail, get some training and get a nice little job handed to them on a plate. It would seem that unemployed people are going about it all the wrong way, they need to go mugging or something in order to fast track their careers.

**dons balaclava**

go forth and steal me a spud

GO ON WIV YA GYPSIE WAYS!!!!

I am not doing that again for you! Ever!

I'm not for the death penalty but I can understand why some people are.

IMO, the current sentencing system and conditions in prisons are far, far too soft and I am sick to the back teeth of the rights of offenders being given more consideration than the rights of the victims.

Against,too many mistakes get made by the police and the courts.

Life.

No parole.

BUT . . . currently our justice system is sooooo soft - prisoners have rights, rights, rights and "punishment" seems very lacking

And the cost of keeping someone like Peter Sutcliffe in such a lifestyle where he runs up costs challenging the system for his freedom!!

 DOES HE HAVE THE RIGHT TO A LIFE AT ALL??

I'd stick em all in solitary for the rest of their natural.

I think death is too easy for some of them. I would imagine from a victim's point of view they would want to see them gone forever, but why should they be given the luxury of a quick injection and not having to face what they did? Even solitary confinement would just mean years of no contact, suppose that might do them in mentally but it's still getting off lightly (IMO). Cos if you're talking about the likes of Sutcliffe, Huntley, Hindley...etc then they are already so far removed from 'normality'  and what's 'right', a few years sleeping on the floor probably wouldn't have the same affect on them that it would on a bloke who is in there for not paying his parking fines.

I read that Huntley gets a hard time inside and was moaning about it. I just smiled. I have not one ounce of sympathy for paedos or rapists and I don't believe in trying to rehabilitate them either (especially repeat offenders). Shove them in there with a load of other inmates who despise their actions and let them rot away (very) unhappily.

Wot we wud like aint gonna happen - sadly

So  ... in reality - what sould be done??

I think people who have refused to uphold the law should not be allowed to vote to shape the law they ignore - agree?

Wot other human rights should they loose?

Nods a lot . It's real hornet's nest of a topic, and tbh my views have changed over the years, from one extreme to another and back again. I don't know what would stop me physically harming anyone that wantonly did harm to any of my own (particularly my kids/nieces/nephews) but I do understand that laws are there for a reason and taking the law in to your own hands goes against the heart of living in a Civil Society. I guess I'm in the 'Life should mean Life imprisonment' camp. State sanctioned murder or retribution killing is still murder.

Who says? There have been lots of things in history that people didn't 'like' eg. mass exported slavery and something was done about that. Granted, it's still rife in some places in the world, but a lot of those places still have capital punishment so it's not a real indicator of enlightenment. 

Hmm I think that would depend on the severity of the charge, if it's a first offence..etc. But in the main, I agree with your thoughts that no, they shouldn't be allowed, neither should they get help to guarantee a place to live on release (if they haven't got somewhere already). For the 'run of the mill' cons I think a lot of it is vicious circle, can't get a job, not enough dole money to survive, have to make money to live, get nicked, back inside, out again, can't get a job, yada yada yada....so removing any human rights would have to be looked at very carefully I think.

i think, what with the Casey Anthony thing recently, even if we were to have the death penalty, how often would it actually be used?

And, sometimes, I think the criminal, should be made to suffer, rather than death, which in the long run would be an easy way out Lock them up FOR LIFE and NO luxuries- NONE!

Nor should they be sent on course, as they will be locked up for life so wont need educating!

Oh, look what you have gone and started, my opinion is spilling out all over the show....but you get the jist.

P.S. *waves at SuzyB* Nice to see you, dahhhling! Only popped in for a swift half, am away again but might be back later x

I don't agree with the death penalty.   Yes, if anyone harmed someone I loved I would want to end their life, but it wouldn't undo what had been done.

In an ideal world, life in prison would be life in prison & would be for people who were a danger to society.   In my ideal world I would have a secure penal colony on some island somewhere.. & they would all be left to get on with it.

Prison would be about reform...   & "punishment" would be in a form that benefitted society, ideally  fitting to the crime committed.   the objective of prison would be to turn out a member of society who would have neither the need nor the desire to reoffend, & had or would have done something positive to balance out the negatives of their criminal actions 

As it is..    prison (which is far from cushy btw), breeds a culture of life long criminology, even those who come out wanting to "go straight" face an uphill struggle to do this...   having a criminal record makes finding work near on impossible..   & many are turned out of the prison gates at the end of their sentence with £30 and the clothes on their back.    They have very little choice but to go straight back out & reoffend, and have a mindset that doesn't even see the wrong in this.

I meant in terms of "lock 'em up and let them rot" kinda comment

*** votes for Ditty *** 

Heya I'm away too to make some cupcakes with my little girls to cheer us all up over the dismal weather and being stuck indoors when we have a safari in the back garden (created just for their birthday last week)....and here am I getting all maudlin discussing capital punishment....just one more look at that doggie called Fred and I'm gone  x

Prison's are a catch 22.

Who survives?

The gangster.

I'm against the death penalty even though there are a few I would shed no tears over if they were killed.

There have been too many miscarriages of justice over the years and if we had the death penalty then no doubt innocent people would be executed.

Plus, if we were to bring it in for child killers for example then it would be easy for a subsequent government to get it extended to all murderers or then rapists etc etc.

Once we have it the line has been crossed - and it would be far too easy for those in charge to redraw that line as it suited them

I dont agree with the death penalty ,but a life sentence should be life.

One of the worst aspects of this dreadful crime, apart from the actual murder, (link below) was that not only did three young girls (who had accused Kiszko of 'flashing') later admit that they'd lied but that the police had evidence at the time of the conviction that  Kiszko could not have been the murderer.  The real killer of that poor child remained at liberty for years after.

It used to be that when I heard of a murderer/rapist etc being apprehended I felt a sense of relief that they were no longer at large and a danger to the public but, given the ever-growing catalogue of miscarriages of justice, I now just find myself wondering if they've got the right person

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7052109.stm

Ditty, I have to disagree with you.

Within Scottish prisons, there are numerous courses to enable prisoners to reform - if they want to - including:

Rehabilitation courses for peadophiles

Alcohol and drug rehab courses

Anger Management courses

Full range of psychological councelling

Vocational training (Level 5 and above)

Jobcentre plus staff go into jails to help with finding emploment on release.

Educational courses, up to Degree level.

Access to Social Workers

Discharge grant of £64

Offer of accommodation on release

If prisoners really want to change, they are given help to do so.

The problem is, most don't want to.

Whilst in prison, they have cells with televisions; piped in Sky TV, kettles; in-cell sanitation; multiple choice menu system. They also have pool and snooker tables, libraries and gymnasiums. In addition, they can attend a full range of church and chapel services and have better access to dentists and doctors than most of us.

Everyone has a choice, Ditty.

Yogi..   I know what you are saying..    and I did say in my ideal world..     there are supposed to be courses in English prisons too..    but overcrowding & understaffing limits the success of these courses.    

& yeah, everyone has a choice..  etc etc..     and whilst I understand the "punishment" way of thinking..    if all it does is turn out even more hardened criminals, who will just reoffend & reoffend..   then what has been acheived.

Also.   whilst everyone has a choice, some younger adults have absolutely no awareness of the choice..    they only know what they are brought up in ..  

I dunno how different Scottish prisons are from English ones..     but of all the people I know who have been to prison (my dodgy past..  and poor taste in men) they were all gutted to be sent down...  none of them were anything but utterly miserable "doing bird"..    they weren't living it up.

When I talk about this ^^^^   in my mind I am thinking of young adults..    people who are reformable...      like I said in my original post..      those that are a threat to society (& I include all paedophiles in that..   as I do not think they are reformable) would be shipped off to the Island.

i have to agree Yogi
Prisoners have never had it so good, whilst we, and our families work hard to make a living, and sometimes cant afford to get our kids in College/Uni. The fees may be free in Scotland, but we still have to pay back loans etc . Not including the price of books etc. 
Some may re-offend, some may not, but lets not forget, they were put in prison in the first place as a punishment and to take them put of society for a time to give the rest of us decent people some peace, albeit for a too short time . Some are not frightened now of prison, so hence they dont care what criminal act they do. IT IS cushy...3 meals a day, seeing their pals, playing games, got the best technology available. It makes me want to puke sometimes...............
 

I understand that but sadly Ditty, the recidivist rate is higher within the 16-24 year olds than the older prisoners. They are given so many chances before they are locked up, you wouldn't believe it  - but there is an ever growing number of young people for whom drugs, stealing and assaulting people is a way of life. They think their way is right and show no interest in reforming. There comes a time, when punishment is needed, IMO.

...............I couldn't agree more. So many chances are given over and over to the young offenders. Sometimes a short, sharp shock (along with redirection,education) would be better than giving them endless chances!