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Can I play devils advocate here..I don't know exactly what meds Nardia will be on but she will be on the likes of exogenous estrogen in combination with progesterone and/or a testosterone-blocker..now if her meds are not balanced right she will be as angry and nasty as any woman when her hormones are all over the place....

Whilst not having a specific opinion - or having thought about it here, at all - that's an interesting point.  How much are we responsible for our own actions and personality?  We are all just a putrefying blancmange of chemical reactions.  Each and every one of us could be injected with a shot tomorrow that would turn us into emotional demons. 

Obviously, I'm aware of ALL the arguments either (and every) way but it's interesting that what we regard as "self" can be altered so radically with 10cc of clear liquid.
bateman
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Can I play devils advocate here..I don't know exactly what meds Nardia will be on but she will be on the likes of exogenous estrogen in combination with progesterone and/or a testosterone-blocker..now if her meds are not balanced right she will be as angry and nasty as any woman when her hormones are all over the place....
 I understand now 
Ev (Peachy)
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Whilst not having a specific opinion - or having thought about it here, at all - that's an interesting point. How much are we responsible for our own actions and personality? We are all just a putrefying blancmange of chemical reactions. Each and every one of us could be injected with a shot tomorrow that would turn us into emotional demons. Obviously, I'm aware of ALL the arguments either (and every) way but it's interesting that what we regard as "self" can be altered so radically with 10cc of clear liquid.
The brain is so complex and facinating take away how normal presciption drugs can effect it and look what a couple of drinks of alcohol can do, even excess water can cause a state of intoxication....
stonks
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Read your posts in order from start to finish. Read them as though they were written by someone else. Most of your posts are completely at odds with the one you started the thread with. And if you're not interested in discussing her gender issues, fair enough. It doesn't mean other people who discuss it are evil in some way. You seem afraid of it for some reason.
Like I said, feel free to point out where.

Other than that, I am off to bed with my fear of genders
Monobrow (Sam is a legend)
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Why, if all the Nadia "hate" has nothing to do with her gender reassignment WHY in NEARLY EVERY thread about Nadia is her gender dragged up and ripped to shreds (by the same forum members i may add) WHY is it even mentioned? 
if Nadia is a bitch (in someones opinion) then why cant that just be said? it's not hard to grasp that someones gender doesnt make them the person they are?? This place seems to have turned into some kinda haven for folk to vent their "hate" for Nadia with no compassion? To The people who are so quick to dismiss her and what she has been through, Id like to see how you would react when coming up against your OWN views if this transgender issue were to ever effect any of your children, siblings or ones you love.
Okay, I'm going to try and answer this from the perspective of someone who doesn't hate Nadia, but has disliked a lot of her behaviour; has some compassion for her current situation, but also thinks she needs to take responsibilty for her own actions rather than blame it all on others/the BB edit; and incidentally from someone who has close first hand-experiences of gender dysphoria affecting people v close to me:
 Why, if all the Nadia "hate" has nothing to do with her gender reassignment WHY in NEARLY EVERY thread about Nadia is her gender dragged up and ripped to shreds (by the same forum members i may add) WHY is it even mentioned? 
'Cos it's human nature? Same way as in just about every thread where people were expressing dislike for Josie her weight was mentioned, or in just about every thread about Steve his disability was mentioned etc. etc. That doesn't make it right but that is, imo, part of the explanation, however I think it's much more complicated than that:  Nadia's 'mission' in BB5 was to be accepted as a woman, it was, I believe why so many warmed to her, empathised with her and most probably was a big part of why she went on to win the show. It was also, I assume, one of the main reasons BB chose her as a contestant, it made her 'interesting,'  just as, for example, Pete's tourettes made him 'interesting.' Hence, for many, to now talk about Nadia, without remembering her and making reference to her as someone who has had gender reassignment surgery is v difficult. Also: we all have our own individual views as to what we see as 'masculine' and 'feminine' traits and how much we reject or accept 'stereotypical' gender behaviour, largely affected by our culture and our socialisation. I've seen numerous comments on here, relating to a number of hms which relate to these stereotypes, not just Nadia e.g. I don't think much of those guys in there, if a bloke had said that to me I'd expect my fella to punch him on the nose; she's really let herself go not wearing make-up or doing her hair etc. etc. etc. Additionally, gender identity is v important to just about everyone, so much so that those who feel that they are born into the the wrong gender body will experience such distress and go to such lengths to change this.... Nadia does often stand out as exhibiting what is viewed as 'stereotypical' masculine behaviour, i.e. aggression, which is presumably why some people find her hard to understand and come out with comments like she isn't a 'lady,' (incidentally that criticism was also levelled at Josie because she wasn't seen as stereotypically 'feminine') 

If Nadia is a bitch (in someones opinion) then why cant that just be said?
That's what I see happening most on here, the ones that don't do that are v much in the minority.
Interestingly, 'bitch' is a word that is often used to describe her: a negative word that relates to 'female'!!!
I am not excusing what have been some nasty and spiteful remarks about Nadia's gender, but there is much implication that anyone's dislike of her must to some degree be because of her gender reassignment, I just don't see that to be true and furthermore how that can be possible, especially as she used to be so popular. 

it's not hard to grasp that someones gender doesnt make them the person they are?? 

I disagree, I think that our gender and and our gender identity is a very significant defining feature of all of us.

This place seems to have turned into some kinda haven for folk to vent their "hate" for Nadia with no compassion? 
Nadia doesn't have the monopoly on that! Surely that can be said of just about any hm who is disliked, (hate may be too strong a word,) and more often than not, even when that hm is apparently suffering, there'll always be a good many who will either say it's all an act or that they deserved everything they got because they brought it on themselves.
FM
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"it's not hard to grasp that someones gender doesnt make them the person they are??"

 I disagree, I think that our gender and and our gender identity is a very significant defining feature of all of us.
So to say Someone (Nadia in this case) is aggressive and that it is her showing her previous gender is a fair comment?? I dont think it is, As I said, I personally know women who were born female who are just as aggressive, if not more so than Nadia...and again, I fail to see how someones gender makes up their personality?? you get masculine women that dont wish to be men, they are just masculine, and feminine men that dont wish to be women, they are just feminine.

 "because it's human nature" - erm, I dont think that is the answer otherwise EVERYONE would be doing the same, and they aren't ??
Monobrow (Sam is a legend)
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it's not just nadia ,mono, just about every hm,no matter what the topic has other stuff dragged into the thread, take ulrika for example, nearly every comment/thread made about her inevitably is strewn with irrelevant remarks about her husbands and children.
Fair comment, but then I didnt suggest it was JUST Nadia being unfairly "bashed" it just so happens the Nadia stuff has got up my nose more than anything else this BB
Monobrow (Sam is a legend)
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I fail to see how someones gender makes up their personality?? you get masculine women that dont wish to be men, they are just masculine
That would be me!

I don't think Supes was disagreeing with that, btw.

I think we are all part of a huge Venn diagram, as well as being sprinkled along a huge spectrum.
Nadia is far more feminine than me, but I am slightly less aggressive, mostly.
Blizz'ard
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So to say Someone (Nadia in this case) is aggressive and that it is her showing her previous gender is a fair comment?? 
Mono, I didn't say anything remotely approaching that   and I specifically said that I wasn't excusing the nasty and spiteful remarks
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I personally know women who were born female who are just as aggressive, if not more so than Nadia...and again, I fail to see how someones gender makes up their personality?? you get masculine women that dont wish to be men, they are just masculine, and feminine men that dont wish to be women, they are just feminine.
I didn't say that someones gender makes up their personality, I said that our gender and and our gender identity are very significant defining feature of all of us, there is a difference. Otherwise, you're saying more or less exactly what I've said on here and also why I posted this, including the link on two previous occasions: the extent to which all of us accept and adopt gender 'stereotypical' behaviours is due to a complex interaction of biological, psychological and sociological factors
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"because it's human nature" - erm, I dont think that is the answer otherwise EVERYONE would be doing the same, and they aren't ??
All of us are different!!!
FM
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Mono, I didn't say anything remotely approaching that and I specifically said that I wasn't excusing the nasty and spiteful remarks
Sorry, My comment wasnt aimed at you in a way that you had said that, but that is the kinda arguments that have been had on here, and why I am saying I dont see how her gender now, or previous gender has any significance, or relevance to anything (or anyone elses gender/previous gender) I wasnt attacking your post
Monobrow (Sam is a legend)
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Sorry, My comment wasnt aimed at you in a way that you had said that, but that is the kinda arguments that have been had on here, and why I am saying I dont see how her gender now, or previous gender has any significance, or relevance to anything (or anyone elses gender/previous gender) I wasnt attacking your post
Mono, rather than join in the 'argument' which seemed to be going nowhere, I decided to make some effort to answer the questions in your OP..... my attempt at some analysis of the 'why's' rather than justification of them!
FM
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I think we are all part of a huge Venn diagram, as well as being sprinkled along a huge spectrum.
Exactly missus.....see for me, I view myself as a person, a female person, with some stereotypical female traits and some stereotypical male traits. I happily call myself a woman, wouldn't want to be referred to as a man, but would possibly object more to being referred to as a lady LOL
FM
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IMO the only thing gender significantly defines is whats between ya legs and on ya chest (or not)

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while I am at it, can you explain what you mean by this??
Gender identity goes waaaaay beyond our genitalia, much of it is sociological and psychological, rather than biological, whether we like it or not we live and interact in a society that defines male and female, if that were not the case then we would likely have v few people who experienced gender dysphoria and this thread and others like it wouldn't exist!!!
FM
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...IMO the only thing gender significantly defines is whats between ya legs and on ya chest (or not)

Can't agree with that at all.... by that generalisation, a woman who's had a mastectomry or a hysterectomy isn't entitled to call herself a woman any more?  A man who's had testicular cancer isn't a man?    Of course that's not the case - being either gender is about a whole lot more than that.
Kaffs
And you are telling me this with what exp of your own, Super and Cologne?

Gender being between ya legs is what it comes down to, to the outside world....
People who are trans have a need in themself to correct their body to match their heads and so on, but when i am faced with comments such as "gender dictates what we can/cant do" I have to argue in simple terms, thats the most crazy comment I have read in this thread....

So please, tell me what exp you both have that makes you so able to pass such comments on this subject...I might just tell you my exp!
Monobrow (Sam is a legend)
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Can't agree with that at all.... by that generalising, a woman who's had a mastectomry or a hysterectomy isn't entitled to call herself a woman any more? A man who's had testicular cancer isn't a man? Of course that's not the case - being either gender is about a whole lot more than that.
to the outside world a man - person with penis, flat chest and hair

women - person with chuff, boobs, moans a lot
Monobrow (Sam is a legend)

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