Ah right, so you were just using my post to try and settle an old score with Bliz?

Ah, I did notice that you'd taken to using the word 'glamorous' instead, to complain about Ulrika's dropping of her feminine standards, since entering the house!

Have you had too many pints blizzie? I hope so, because if not you are talking carp for the sake of it.

You seem to have some kind of mental block going on here. I know what you mean about women going out of their way to appear feminine and prim and proper assuming that's what 'the menfolk' expect of them but that really is an outdated view and doesn't necessarily apply to the word 'lady' at all.

Lady, to me, often means women looking down on other women as being beneath them because they haven't mastered social graces or don't dress appropriately etc, nothing at all to do with being subservient to men.

I'm not sure what you mean Mono, and no I'm NOT being obtuse! Do you mean your personal experience of  living with someone with gender dysphoria? Have to say that the convo since you were here last does rather underline the fact that gender id  can often be a little more complex than if one was born with male or female 'bits'

You see, not at all. My guy called me his lady and I felt that we we equal in the relationship. It was NOT me bowing down to the bloke.

Sober as a judge, thanks!

You complained about Josie not wearing her 'pretty' dresses anymore, and now you are complaining about Ulrika not dressing up glamorously, as she did on her first night in the house.

Any clearer?

Unfortunately Prom, for some it still does And that, I agree

Yes, they both play the game.

Or possibly just comfortable in their own skin.

When young girls are told that they shouldn't climb trees, should sit with their knees together, even though they are wearing trousers, shouldn't drink pints (they're 18 by now, btw), shouldn't laugh too loud etc. as it is unladylike, they are being brainwashed into thinking that they should sit demurely and bat their eyelashes, to a certain extent.

They are not free to be themselves, or to be equal to men.

Boys are allowed to swagger and be exertive in their manner.

'Social graces' exist for certain purposes.
One of which is to keep women in their place, below men.

IMO, of course!

Not everyone wants to wear a twin set and pearls, every day!

from ladette to lady makes me CRINGE

Oh please. Anybody with an ounce of social skill would realise that that Australian bloke did not care for the worzel gummige. Never mind, they are on a trip to make a bit of cash, Good for them, I suppose.

Good for you, that relationship sounds as if it worked for both of you...it's all in the  subtleties and complexities......if someone referred to me as that, I'd  be wary of it possibly expressing ownership and I'd say a) I don't belong to you and b) I'm no lady...so let's get some of the language sorted out, to just be clear that we are 'equal' (and I'd expect him to say the same!)

I think it depends on what you consider  *social graces*.  For example.... I think women should sit with their legs together.... but  have never *batted my eyelashes.... or been kept in my place by a man I think it is possible to be *ladylike* and still be an equal...... one does not neccesarily preclude the other.... IMO

 What? You do talk crap in the name of the ninja, don't you?

Well that's told me. How stupid of me not to realise that all females are born to the royal family these days and have to behave accordingly 

What has that to do with my reply? I was simply commenting on the fact that Josie and Ulrika don't fell the need to glam up everyday ........they are comfortable enough without having to dress up in pretty dresses and palaster them selves in make up.

I said, "When young girls are told", not, "All young girls are told".

It doesn't matter Bliz, it's still a stereotype from a distant past. Girls these days do pretty much what they like once they reach adolescence. These days ain't them days.

See, I REALLY don't think she is.....I find it a bit sad that some of  the women, (and men for that matter,) in there feel that they have to spend hours doing their make-up and their hair and dressing up every day, often 'cos they're after a magazine shoot in Nuts or something similar, so they somehow feel that they have to. They're 'at home' fgs albeit on national TV and potentially about to do tasks where they'll get sweaty/dirty/ gunked etc. I  find it rather refreshing when they don't do that and just make a bit more effort for parties, eviction night etc.

This is the problem, Baz.

I have never, ever felt like being 'ladylike'. I have no objection to anyone who wants to sit in a certain way, or wear certain clothes, as long as I am not told that I have to do that. I believe we are all equal - men, women, effeminate men, butch women, and anyone in between.
I also have no objection to others using the word 'lady'.
I just don't feel like one and won't act like something I'm not.

I bring up my kids to have manners, hold doors open etc. and I think that's enough, without specifying gender.

Prom, this attitude is being exposed 'clear as day' on this very page.
It still exists.

I think people are pretending it still exists. It doesn't, maybe for royalty and social-ladder-climbing faux posh wannabes, but in the real world? Nah 

You wouldn't though because you two have been in accordance about everybody. If one of you hated the person the other one liked, what would you do?

I have people around me telling my kids, and theirs, that they should behave like 'ladies'.

I think I live in the real world.  

Supes liked Ben, believe it or not!

OMG! How obtuse is that?

was hoping to see you in my other thread

Sorry Prom, but that's just not true. Yeah, I agree that things have, thankfully, moved on to a large extent for many. but by no means all......I do probably need to say however, that I believe that gender stereotyping can be very negative influence for males too

No girl should behave like a 'lady'. Women are their own people and do what they like. What I said was an old expression that people used about their girlfriend, if you and soupes don't get that, you havn't been around for as long as I have.

OMG, how obtuse are you night after night?

On a scale of 1-10 about 7 I'd say. And you?

Ha, ha, I can't stand Aisylene,  I really liked Ben, (in fact he was probably my favourite this year) I didn't care at all for Corin etc. etc etc.

OMG Who is more gin soaked

I understand that completely and haven't disagreed with it.

I was explaining why I don't feel like a 'lady' and why the word has different connotations for me.
You don't seem to like me feeling that way, that's all!