Godfrey Bloom, that was his name.

Listening to it now Cinds... he's a plank

She's just said "you don't get it"

He really doesn't

Anyone with a name like that has to be a bit of a pillock

I bet I looked like a plank while I was listening to it, I was driving along with gob hanging open.

Name-ist!

That Godfrey bloke is a plonker.

But Yasmin is not correct when she says that when someone says "You look like a Paki" then they mean you look like something unpleasant.  She's interpreting that in light of her own experiences of targetted abuse, in particular email abuse as a response to her newspaper columns.

If I said to someone "You look like an arab" because they had a particularly strong holiday tan and was perhaps wearing something related to the middle east, such as a keffiyeh scarf, then I wouldn't be using 'arab' as a term of abuse.  Yet I've heard white British people call each other "you dirty arab" as some sort of joke.  Obviously, that's pretty offensive and the underlying meaning is clear.

The word 'arab' is perfectly legitimate, unlike 'Paki', but the context is the same.  Du Beke used a word which is no longer acceptable in the UK but I think he used it in a way which was contextually okay.  Is 'Paki' the same as 'nigger' and therefore never okay even in this context?  It ought to be now but I'm not sure it is.

I still hear people talk about 'coloured' people and I wince inside and sometimes say something about it.  Yet it's not "You racist" but rather "I think you ought to stop using that adjective" because the context is not obviously racist.  I would, however, argue that inside their heads there is a mild form of racism going on to think of other people as 'coloured'.  But that's another thread.

Surely it's more like saying to an Iranian that they look like a 'dirty Arab', Daniel.
She has Morrocan/Indian parentage and her normal skin tone is similar to most Pakistanis anyway.

It just makes you think that that is something he might say to anyone who looks darker than they usually do.

Someone made a comment on here the other day that Tracey Emin looks as if she needs a good wash, and everyone laughed about it.

Also let's not forget that Anton's comment wasn't a one-off - when he first met Laila, he asked her "You're not a terrorist, are you?".

i get called a 'nip'  or  'bruce lee'  or   'chinky'

and i dont care

why on earth should I..?

the people who normally say it with malice are usually stupid and had too much puff/booze and its normally cos their OH fancies me..lol!

so i take into consideration-the fact that they are too STUPID and dont think

hence mr anton-just plain stupid

you are NEVER gonna take away peoples opinions
everyone dont like someone

way of the world innit

Once again the British public go right over the top - fgs it was a joke - no-one has been hurt by it - even the so called victim is over it so why can't the rest of the country deal with it??  There are far worse things going on in the world to worry about!!

Antoine only showed how dim he is.

Just shows ye, dinnit?

Celebs. Two for a fiver 

Foxtrots out 

10  10  10  10

Not at all.  Had he said "You look like a dirty Paki" or "you look like a Paki bastard" then the derogatory and offensive meaning is completely clear and he should be sacked immediately.  If you mean that instead of two white Brits teasing each other, it's a white Brit teasing his Iranian mate by saying "you dirty Arab" then I don't see the similarly.

Saying to an Iranian "You look like an arab" because they have dark, middle-eastern skin doesn't seem offensive to me.  Loads of people mistakenly think Iran is an arab country anyway although I think the visual difference between most Persians/Farsis and most Arabs is pretty obvious.

Culturally, it might be insensitive in the way that calling a Gujarati person a Pakistani is probably insensitive and ignorant, and similarly calling an Australian a Brit or a Kiwi probably is too.  But that's a slightly different thing.

It's very unfortunate that 'Paki' is a short form of "Pakistani" as "Brit" is a short form of "British" as it allows people like Godfrey Bloom to appear to treat the two as the same irrespective of the specific cultural significance of "Paki" over the last few decades in the UK.  The word 'Paki' doesn't appear to be a term of abuse in other parts of the world, and why should it?  Obviously, words like 'nigger' or 'wop' or 'wog' always are.

I'm amazed that any people in the UK think the word 'Paki' is okay yet I know people today where I live who are not at all racist as far as I can tell who still say "I'm going to the Paki shop", which may or may not be owned by an Indian or Bangladeshi family, without meaning anything bad at all.  People on this forum have said they still say that sometimes.  Hence, I think we have to accept that word has not reached that stage where it is always a racist word or a 'reclaimed' racist word.

There still seems to be a cultural artefact, even in ethnically mixed and well-integrated areas like mine, where it is used simply as an abbreviation.  As far as I can tell, 'Paki shop' is one of those phrases that is still sometimes passed down between generations without apparent thought until political correctness [not gone mad] forces it out completely.

Where I live, all the local or corner shops are owned by South Asians.  'Paki shop' simply means 'corner shop' rather than the supermarket to some people.  I wince whenever I hear it as I'm not local and I've never used the word 'Paki' to mean 'Pakistani', or as a culturally lazy adjective, or as a term of abuse.  However, I'm at the stage where I'm sub-consciously surprised when I go into shops in other parts of the UK which are not owned by South Asians.

Storm in a teacup, I bet people in the Asian community (what ever that is) has accepted his apology and have moved on with their lives as they know what true racism is.


Unlike hand ringing do gooding PC brigade WHITE middle class knobs who have decided to be offended on Asians behalf and to demand Anton's swift sacking followed by hanging from the tallest tree, people like them dont understand what true racism is and always seem to miss the point on this subject..

I am a cyclist.  I am also exceptionally evil.  I think the theory holds water. 

That was a really well-phrased argument DJ. But maybe you, like me, have the advantage of a long established and integrated community in a big city. 

I think that is not so much the case in many places elsewhere, and so the baggage of the term still has other connotations. That is what is at the core of this debate, and I respect the shock that is felt.

That was my point, Daniel.

"Dirty Arab" and "Paki" have both been used in derogatory ways, and in jokey ways. Both are now widely known to be offensive.
Even if the person you say it to isn't offended, others around could be, and you are perpetuating its use.

Simply saying that someone looks another nationality, is not quite the same thing.

Plus the fact that other Asians aren't too happy about being called Pakistani, for various reasons, as Iranians aren't always too keen on being called Arabs.
Not forgetting the Scots being called English!

Anton first made the 'terrorist' quip and then tells a woman who could easily pass for a Pakistani woman and who has an Indian parent, that she looks like a 'Paki', after she'd had a spray tan.

I can't quite believe that these are not examples of his usual style of humour!

You accept the fact that the lady in question was highly offended and walked out?

I haven't demanded his sacking, but I've gone off him and won't enjoy watching him on my tellybox anymore.

It's people telling others that they should 'get a sense of humour' about these things and saying that it's no different to calling the British 'Brits', that really get my goat.

I am doddery, I am not.

You've hit the nail on the head!  It's as blatantly offensive as that!  
(Scottish SIL)

I live in a small town but not far from Leicester, which is a well-integrated city on the whole with lots of South Asian immigration.  The local mining villages are not so accepting of the ethnic mix though.  I was brought up until I went to university in a mono-cultured, almost entirely white middle-class area.  I can see the difference between those and industrial towns where there have been historic racial tension and ethnic competition for resources, such as jobs and housing.

I still find it strange that news readers can still call Polish people Poles....

My brother had a Canadian girlfriend once, who got very annoyed one day when I called her American.

I said, "But isn't Canada in North America?"

Her face --->

News and Media again exasperating the situation. Was the same with Swine Flu. I have my personall views on these things, but IMO they are best kept personal, these issues only seem to end in one place-- Troll Tank. Would hate to see anyone get banned so please be carefull what you say.

Real.

I thought it was a perfectly reasonable discussion!

You've got to admit darlo... he's only made matters worse. No bigger fool than an old fool.

I didn't know 'Poles' was offensive!

Chill Real!   But I disagree... it's the sort of topic a forum is for... if we can be civil, there is no reason to be afraid to express a considered and reasonable view.

Aaahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa............

That (^^^^^^^) is a very amusing malapropism. 

And change the habit of a lifetime?   

One should never argue about Geography!

Wanna fight big guy?  

But is'nt it an abreviation of a name? just like abreviating Pakistan or some Scottish people find Scott insulting..Some people Find British or Brit offencive..Swings and roundabouts Blizzerberth....VV

I agree on the discussion of it --- but the mods have binned all of the posts relating to this subject. just worried that eventually they will get pissed and ban someone. Not being a fuddy-duddy, just worried someone will be made a scapegoat and banned.

Certainly not with my lack of knowledge!

.


Xochi i'm always cringing every Saturday listening to Bruce's cheesy jokes and him keeping going on, always tries to make it about himself.

Where I work, the company is introducing a 'workplace dignity' policy.  If you quip between friends and someone else overhears and is offended by what you say then they can start a grievance procedure against you.  I'm pretty much fine with that but loads of people are up in arms about it because they think conversations have a recognised context between intended participants.  If the procedure is used by someone in the future then I think it'll be quite interesting how it is all perceived by the majority.

But it's not about an abbreviation. It's about how it has been, and still is, used as a term of abuse.