yes all parties manipulate language however not all are hiding or suppressing far right wing, racist and dangerous ideologies and therein lies the difference!
I don't see how specific examples of Nazi language manipulation 'kind of make (your) point about the left having been successful at covering their backs'?
I was specifically talking about one point in history, the Nazis and yes I have also read about Stalin's atrocities and no I didn't use google. I don't see anyone anywhere apologising for Stalin, however I can also say that Stalinist Russia was NOT democratic, it was a dictatorship which is never a good thing. I have never heard ANYONE in the left say Stalin was a great guy.
But I like how you tried to deflect a discussion on fascism in Britain to 'oh some other bad guys killed folk years ago too, ours weren't that bad'.
Nice one.
The BNP are racist filth.
Anyone who votes for them as some form of "protest" is a gullible idiot.
End of chat.
Anyone who votes for them as some form of "protest" is a gullible idiot.
End of chat.
quote:Originally posted by tupps:
The BNP are not unique in the choice of language and use of spin to make policy etc. more palatable. For an example, look at the use of the phrase 'credit crunch' in the stead of 'recession'... or rebranding the Poll tax as Council tax.
They all do it..
Eh Tupps I did say in my post that 'ALL PARTIES DO IT' that's not in dispute at all.
However as the Nazis were vociferous recorders of all information the documented evidence of how they manipulated language is there for all who are interested to see and it goes back years and years before the annexation of Poland. They are the best historical example of how it was done but of course after studying that you see it all the time and yes New Labour were good at it too but they weren't masking deep seated hatred of other racists and planning to humiliate,deport, torture and kill people purely on their race.
quote:and I'm sure the BNP would also use language in such a way, all parties do but the 1933 German govt used it very well and cynically, which is how you start to change the mood and opinion of a people.
.
quote:Originally posted by kattymieoww:
Oh this blissful land that was crime free 'till some immigrants arrived!What a load of pish!
ive been reading about victorian britain and blimey! we seem like a safe haven in this day and age
quote:Originally posted by jonono:
yes all parties manipulate language however not all are hiding or suppressing far right wing, racist and dangerous ideologies and therein lies the difference!
I don't see how specific examples of Nazi language manipulation 'kind of make (your) point about the left having been successful at covering their backs'?
I was specifically talking about one point in history, the Nazis and yes I have also read about Stalin's atrocities and no I didn't use google. I don't see anyone anywhere apologising for Stalin, however I can also say that Stalinist Russia was NOT democratic, it was a dictatorship which is never a good thing. I have never heard ANYONE in the left say Stalin was a great guy.
But I like how you tried to deflect a discussion on fascism in Britain to 'oh some other bad guys killed folk years ago too, ours weren't that bad'.
Nice one.
well it does work both ways after all as you say you were talking about a specific period in history (germany under hitler) and yet you find my comparison to stalin odd but its ok to equate to the bnp?
as tupps just said, language manipulation is a feature of politics in general not tied to any specific time or place and yes, hiding or suppressing the truth is entirely the point of doing it although of course, again, you only gave the right wing issues, it might shock you to know that racism (and other isms) is most certainly alive and well in many "working mens clubs" in the north, in fact the sizeable number of the "new" bnp voters come from those labour working class areas.
its not a case of ours werent that bad its a case of whitewashing history to attack a modern target, you get posts like dementoids directly below yours and so many threads in general all full of "gullible idiots" who have fallen hook line and sinker for the right = bad left = good line because they simply dont know that in truth extremism = bad whether its left or right or religious.
quote:Originally posted by jonono:
they weren't masking deep seated hatred of other racists and planning to humiliate,deport, torture and kill people purely on their race.
realy? i'd say they humiliated their traditional supporters, deportations and yes even torture have taken place under them and i'm pretty sure that there have been people killed in iraq too so its ok because it was the labour party but not if its the bnp? (for me its not ok under either)
Sorry to interrupt but i just want to say that we are all people whatever colour or creed and we all have the same rights to a nice life - none of us own this world we are merely invited to live here for a short while in the best harmony we can.
Noone has to stay in just one country we can work where we wish - that is called freedom - and long may we be free.
Noone has to stay in just one country we can work where we wish - that is called freedom - and long may we be free.
quote:Originally posted by jonono:quote:Originally posted by tupps:
The BNP are not unique in the choice of language and use of spin to make policy etc. more palatable. For an example, look at the use of the phrase 'credit crunch' in the stead of 'recession'... or rebranding the Poll tax as Council tax.
They all do it..
Eh Tupps I did say in my post that 'ALL PARTIES DO IT' that's not in dispute at all.
However as the Nazis were vociferous recorders of all information the documented evidence of how they manipulated language is there for all who are interested to see and it goes back years and years before the annexation of Poland. They are the best historical example of how it was done but of course after studying that you see it all the time and yes New Labour were good at it too but they weren't masking deep seated hatred of other racists and planning to humiliate,deport, torture and kill people purely on their race.
Yep.. spin.. it is the nature of Politics.. and has been since the art/science began. My point being exactly that: the BNP are not the first nor will they be the last. Be it questionable views, bigotry, masking of an economic situation, whatever it is done to the same ends. It is all about getting elected and trusting that the electorate won't look beyond the surface. And if you think that some New Labourites and their policies don't have a grain of racial 'intolerance' then you only have to look at the two-stepping done after the MacPherson report.
I am not a BNP supporter and so my opinion is not coming from an apologist view point. But, I can see that their methods are quite mainstream if you take the art/science as a whole.
quote:Originally posted by china:quote:Originally posted by kattymieoww:
Oh this blissful land that was crime free 'till some immigrants arrived!
ive been reading about victorian britain and blimey! we seem like a safe haven in this day and age
The OH has been doing some local history research, and 100 years ago, the main problems everyone was moaning about were rowdy drunkenness and antisocial behaviour
this debate/argument seems to be getting bogged down into some sort of extreme right vs extreme left thing,
IF there was at this moment in history in the UK, a left wing party along the lines of...the old guard in Russia, or China, or north korea, gaining support in the way the BNP appear to be, you can be assured I would be RANTING just as strongly against THEM,
but there isnt, not one with the support that the BNP is getting anyway,
all I am saying is we cant afford to take the chance of allowing ANY "extreme" party to gain power in this country RIGHT or LEFT,
IF there was at this moment in history in the UK, a left wing party along the lines of...the old guard in Russia, or China, or north korea, gaining support in the way the BNP appear to be, you can be assured I would be RANTING just as strongly against THEM,
but there isnt, not one with the support that the BNP is getting anyway,
all I am saying is we cant afford to take the chance of allowing ANY "extreme" party to gain power in this country RIGHT or LEFT,
quote:Originally posted by old hippy guy:
all I am saying is we cant afford to take the chance of allowing ANY "extreme" party to gain power in this country RIGHT or LEFT,
well at least we agree on that then.
but i saw an awful lot of socialist worker bods on saturday when i went to the market, only them no other parties at all.
OHG totally agree.
Although I lean more towards the right then the left, I don't want to see any party with extreme Left or Right views in power, 
quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Although I lean more towards the right then the left, I don't want to see any party with extreme Left or Right views in power,
hehe likewise...but the otherway round
quote:Originally posted by old hippy guy:quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Although I lean more towards the right then the left, I don't want to see any party with extreme Left or Right views in power,
hehe likewise...but the otherway round
Oh..
The Postman delivered a BNP leaflet through the door today! I wish you could've all see OHG's reaction!!I went and hid under the bed
quote:I wish you could've all see OHG's reaction!!
I can imagine!
I've had 2 from the lib dems, 1 from labour and that's it...
Lecssorry I haven't been very communicative recently .... bad days and forum fatigue
I had a letter from David Cameron today....and one from Gordon Brown last Saturday.
quote:Originally posted by pepsi:
I went and hid under the bed
Did he chase the postman down the path?
quote:Originally posted by electric6:quote:I wish you could've all see OHG's reaction!!
I can imagine!
I've had 2 from the lib dems, 1 from labour and that's it...
No-one bothers to knock at my door
quote:Originally posted by pepsi:
sorry I haven't been very communicative recently .... bad days and forum fatigue
Yeah I keep getting that...dip in and out.
Hope you feel better soon.Mazzy, no one has knocked here either, just cheap naff leaflets.
WB Croc, hope the holiday was good! xx
quote:Originally posted by Yogi 19:quote:Originally posted by pepsi:
I went and hid under the bed
Did he chase the postman down the path?
He had the thing screwed up and hurtled into the wheely bin at 100 miles an hour before the poor postie even made it back to his van!!!!
I received a clever piece of PR from our Lib Dem MP this morning.
Personally addressed envelope
Letter inside puffing himself up appearing to be handwritten...very clever, but it didn't work!!!
Personally addressed envelope
Letter inside puffing himself up appearing to be handwritten...very clever, but it didn't work!!!
quote:Originally posted by pepsi:quote:Originally posted by Yogi 19:quote:Originally posted by pepsi:
I went and hid under the bed
Did he chase the postman down the path?
He had the thing screwed up and hurtled into the wheely bin at 100 miles an hour before the poor postie even made it back to his van!!!!
He didn't recycle
quote:Originally posted by Mentalist:quote:Originally posted by pepsi:quote:Originally posted by Yogi 19:quote:Originally posted by pepsi:
I went and hid under the bed
Did he chase the postman down the path?
He had the thing screwed up and hurtled into the wheely bin at 100 miles an hour before the poor postie even made it back to his van!!!!
He didn't recycle
I TOLD him he had put it in the wrong bin
...then legged it! quote:Originally posted by pepsi:quote:Originally posted by Yogi 19:quote:Originally posted by pepsi:
I went and hid under the bed
Did he chase the postman down the path?
He had the thing screwed up and hurtled into the wheely bin at 100 miles an hour before the poor postie even made it back to his van!!!!
I can imagine.
quote:Originally posted by electric6:quote:Originally posted by pepsi:
sorry I haven't been very communicative recently .... bad days and forum fatigue
Yeah I keep getting that...dip in and out.
Mazzy, no one has knocked here either, just cheap naff leaflets.
WB Croc, hope the holiday was good! xx
VCheers...Yep a real good time was had by all...
quote:Originally posted by jonono:quote:Originally posted by tupps:
The BNP are not unique in the choice of language and use of spin to make policy etc. more palatable. For an example, look at the use of the phrase 'credit crunch' in the stead of 'recession'... or rebranding the Poll tax as Council tax.
They all do it..
Eh Tupps I did say in my post that 'ALL PARTIES DO IT' that's not in dispute at all.
However as the Nazis were vociferous recorders of all information the documented evidence of how they manipulated language is there for all who are interested to see and it goes back years and years before the annexation of Poland. They are the best historical example of how it was done but of course after studying that you see it all the time and yes New Labour were good at it too but they weren't masking deep seated hatred of other racists and planning to humiliate,deport, torture and kill people purely on their race.
they were also the first country, or one of the very first to introduce a national identity card, and we know what they used that information for ,don't we?
for me, that alone is enough to fight tooth and nail to never have them introduced into this country,one fairly reasonable government may think it's saving the country from a terrorist attack, although that theory is a very flawed one, in itself,but governments change.
I criticised Castro on here once, and was accused of being a Pinochet supporter! 
The thing is, BBBS, the BNP do deny membership to non whites and they do deny the Holocaust. Even one vote for them is too many.
The thing is, BBBS, the BNP do deny membership to non whites and they do deny the Holocaust. Even one vote for them is too many.
quote:Originally posted by Yogi 19:quote:Originally posted by pepsi:
I went and hid under the bed
Did he chase the postman down the path?
nooo poor postie hes only doin his job,...as it came through the letter box I picked it up screwed it up and opened the front door, postie hadnt even got back into his van RIGHT outside the door before it hit the bottom of the inside of the bin which is by the front door,
quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Although I lean more towards the right then the left:
**builds a wall under liv's right armpit**
quote:Originally posted by JacksonB:
they were also the first country, or one of the very first to introduce a national identity card, and we know what they used that information for ,don't we?
for me, that alone is enough to fight tooth and nail to never have them introduced into this country,one fairly reasonable government may think it's saving the country from a terrorist attack, although that theory is a very flawed one, in itself,but governments change.
quote:Originally posted by JacksonB:quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Although I lean more towards the right then the left:
**builds a wall under liv's right armpit**
I wouldn't if I were you
quote:Originally posted by Blizzie:
I criticised Castro on here once, and was accused of being a Pinochet supporter!
The thing is, BBBS, the BNP do deny membership to non whites and they do deny the Holocaust. Even one vote for them is too many.
you see thats where false left wing info meets reality, strange though it may sound and contrary to everything we think we know about them they do not bar people from membership based on colour, although i cant think why anyone would want to join them.
Technically I'm sure they dont, as it would probably be illegal to discriminate on grounds of race but I dont expect to see many black or asian BNP candidates any time soon.quote:Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:quote:Originally posted by Blizzie:
I criticised Castro on here once, and was accused of being a Pinochet supporter!
The thing is, BBBS, the BNP do deny membership to non whites and they do deny the Holocaust. Even one vote for them is too many.
you see thats where false left wing info meets reality, strange though it may sound and contrary to everything we think we know about them they do not bar people from membership based on colour, although i cant think why anyone would want to join them.
quote:Originally posted by captain marbles:Technically I'm sure they dont, as it would probably be illegal to discriminate on grounds of race but I dont expect to see many black or asian BNP candidates any time soon.quote:Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:quote:Originally posted by Blizzie:
I criticised Castro on here once, and was accused of being a Pinochet supporter!
The thing is, BBBS, the BNP do deny membership to non whites and they do deny the Holocaust. Even one vote for them is too many.
you see thats where false left wing info meets reality, strange though it may sound and contrary to everything we think we know about them they do not bar people from membership based on colour, although i cant think why anyone would want to join them.
i think you are most likely spot on with that answer.
Its the same as most social clubs in the Country (not all I must say)..anyone can apply for Membership to be accepted by the Committee but you dont see many non whites in these clubs..where a lot of the older generation go