Good morning everyone 
Another cold day here, a bit of sunshine.
I hope everyone has a good day 
The heating at Gloucester Cathedral has broken down and won't be fixed until after Christmas 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-...cestershire-63908807
@El Loro posted:The heating at Gloucester Cathedral has broken down and won't be fixed until after Christmas
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-...cestershire-63908807
Dare to say I question that ...
Exeter library has opened it's doors to those who want to keep warm...they have a communal fridge full of goodness and a coat rack with coats/hats for those who need a new one (second hand), plus a warm space.
Why are we not hearing more from our churches in this current clime?
@slimfern posted:Dare to say I question that ...
Exeter library has opened it's doors to those who want to keep warm...they have a communal fridge full of goodness and a coat rack with coats/hats for those who need a new one (second hand), plus a warm space.
Why are we not hearing more from our churches in this current clime?
The Gloucester Diocese has a page on its site of about 30 places in Gloucestershire where there are some warm spaces, they are a mix of community centres and churches.
I may be wrong but I seem to remember hearing some weeks ago that the cloisters part of the Gloucester Cathedral had been possibly one such place.
There's a website called warmspaces.org which was set up for places offering warm places to register so that they could be shown on a map for people to search for places.
@El Loro posted:The Gloucester Diocese has a page on its site of about 30 places in Gloucestershire where there are some warm spaces, they are a mix of community centres and churches.
I may be wrong but I seem to remember hearing some weeks ago that the cloisters part of the Gloucester Cathedral had been possibly one such place.
There's a website called warmspaces.org which was set up for places offering warm places to register so that they could be shown on a map for people to search for places.
This is the sort of thing that should be on the news, in order to reach a wider audience...
@slimfern posted:This is the sort of thing that should be on the news, in order to reach a wider audience...
I agree with you.
Although there are quite a lot of these warm places around the country, publicity about them does vary from county to county. I think the BBC website in their Cost of Living section is starting to have items about this and one would hope that it becomes better than it is at present.
@El Loro posted:I agree with you.
Although there are quite a lot of these warm places around the country, publicity about them does vary from county to county. I think the BBC website in their Cost of Living section is starting to have items about this and one would hope that it becomes better than it is at present.
I get that online it may be fairly advertised area to area...but do think it should be more mainstream...like on the news. 
And going back to Gloucester cathedral...I'd be hard pressed to believe they couldn't get a company to deal with their repairs asap 
@El Loro posted:The heating at Gloucester Cathedral has broken down and won't be fixed until after Christmas
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-...cestershire-63908807
awwww churches and cathedrals are given no funding - Wrexham St Giles has to self fund-dreadful for a cathedral EL
@Rocking Ros Rose posted:awwww churches and cathedrals are given no funding - Wrexham St Giles has to self fund-dreadful for a cathedral EL
In the C of E there's an Energy Costs Grant fund which has been set up to help churches with their heating bills this winter.
For building costs although there's no direct funding, churches and cathedrals can apply to grant making organisations including the National Lottery and local councils can also make small grants. In England there's Historic England which can make grants on listed buildings. I don't know if there's the equivalent in Wales though.
@El Loro posted:In the C of E there's an Energy Costs Grant fund which has been set up to help churches with their heating bills this winter.
For building costs although there's no direct funding, churches and cathedrals can apply to grant making organisations including the National Lottery and local councils can also make small grants. In England there's Historic England which can make grants on listed buildings. I don't know if there's the equivalent in Wales though.
The Church of England has a large endowment of £8.7 billion which generates approximately £1 billion a year in income (2019), this is their largest source of revenue.
The average salary for a Church of England vicar is £28,764 per year. Vicars earn different salaries at different points of their career journey.
@slimfern posted:The Church of England has a large endowment of £8.7 billion which generates approximately £1 billion a year in income (2019), this is their largest source of revenue.
The average salary for a Church of England vicar is £28,764 per year. Vicars earn different salaries at different points of their career journey.
Although the C of E has substantial investments and the £8.7 billion wouldn't be wrong, I think the £1 billion figure was an error by whoever put that figure on Wiki. The accounts show investment income of under £200 million and about half of that is used in paying pensions to retired clergy.
I do the annual independent examination of the local church's accounts. Doesn't get any of that income and is expected to raise all its income locally. Clergy are paid centrally. Each church is expected to pay a sum of money to central funds each year. The amount expected of the local church is rather more than the amount paid to the vicar, that's in part because there's a shortfall in the pension funds and churches have to pay for that.
The C of E could sell off some of the investments but then the income is reduced so that doesn't solve the problem.
I've had a look at the C of E accounts.
The investment income of under £200m is half spent on providing pensions as I mentioned above.
I think the figure of £1 billion would include the increase in value of the investments during the year. That would be the majority of that figure.
Charities have to include investments in their accounts at their market value each year. That value can vary substantially from year to year. That investment gain exists on paper unless the investment is sold.
Charities can have 3 types of funds. There's unrestricted funds which can be used for any of the activities/purposes of the charity. There's restricted funds. Those are where the donor specified what their money can be spent on - the charity can't start spending it on something else.
Then there's endowment funds. Those are ultra-restricted funds. The amount given to the charity can't be spent on anything and is generally invested. The income from the investment can be spent but the capital can't. If the investment is sold, the proceeds have to be re-invested, they can't generally be spent. And that's the case with the C of E's investments.
They have been able to get legal permission to be able to use a bit for the pensions but they can't just sell investments and use the money for anything else.
Apologies for this somewhat technical post.
@El Loro posted:I've had a look at the C of E accounts.
The investment income of under £200m is half spent on providing pensions as I mentioned above.
I think the figure of £1 billion would include the increase in value of the investments during the year. That would be the majority of that figure.
Charities have to include investments in their accounts at their market value each year. That value can vary substantially from year to year. That investment gain exists on paper unless the investment is sold.
Charities can have 3 types of funds. There's unrestricted funds which can be used for any of the activities/purposes of the charity. There's restricted funds. Those are where the donor specified what their money can be spent on - the charity can't start spending it on something else.
Then there's endowment funds. Those are ultra-restricted funds. The amount given to the charity can't be spent on anything and is generally invested. The income from the investment can be spent but the capital can't. If the investment is sold, the proceeds have to be re-invested, they can't generally be spent. And that's the case with the C of E's investments.
They have been able to get legal permission to be able to use a bit for the pensions but they can't just sell investments and use the money for anything else.Apologies for this somewhat technical post.
Very well explained El 
@El Loro posted:In the C of E there's an Energy Costs Grant fund which has been set up to help churches with their heating bills this winter.
For building costs although there's no direct funding, churches and cathedrals can apply to grant making organisations including the National Lottery and local councils can also make small grants. In England there's Historic England which can make grants on listed buildings. I don't know if there's the equivalent in Wales though.
thankyou EL tbh not sure EL but remember pre covid and choir-the heating needed sorting in the church but they did not have the funds to do it
night EL slim moonsieee velvet
Slim, a reminder that "Touch of Evil" is on Sky Arts channel at 9 this evening.
Not much of interest on the Talking Pictures tv channel during the coming week. On Wednesday morning at 6.30 am there's "The Bullfighters" (1945) which was the last Laurel and Hardy film made in the States. Laurel is a detective who disguises himself as a bullfighter in Mexico. I've never seen the film so don't know if there's any actual bullfighting.
@El Loro posted:Slim, a reminder that "Touch of Evil" is on Sky Arts channel at 9 this evening.
Not much of interest on the Talking Pictures tv channel during the coming week. On Wednesday morning at 6.30 am there's "The Bullfighters" (1945) which was the last Laurel and Hardy film made in the States. Laurel is a detective who disguises himself as a bullfighter in Mexico. I've never seen the film so don't know if there's any actual bullfighting.
Thank you for the reminder El
I shall record it as have something else lined up for this evening 
Still snowing here and the police are saying only go on the roads if one has to as they are inundated with reports of crashes around the county.
Snow expected to come to a halt during the afternoon and forecast to be dry for much of the next week but doesn't look as if the snow will melt until next weekend, Locally the snow isn't thick bit the pavements are going to be very icy.
@El Loro posted:Still snowing here and the police are saying only go on the roads if one has to as they are inundated with reports of crashes around the county.
Snow expected to come to a halt during the afternoon and forecast to be dry for much of the next week but doesn't look as if the snow will melt until next weekend, Locally the snow isn't thick bit the pavements are going to be very icy.
Take care if you venture out El
Especially on the roads with idiots like last week, imagine the damage he could cause in icy weather 
@slimfern posted:Take care if you venture out El
Especially on the roads with idiots like last week, imagine the damage he could cause in icy weather
I would take care if I do get to be on the roads, Slim, Car not going anywhere thanks to that flat battery which will have to be replaced as it's nearly 5 years old, Unlikely to be done soon thanks to the freezing weather