The benefit system is there as a safety net ,people who claim benefit who are not entitled ruin it for the people who need it most.

The same as tax evasion.

I agree, Erin. Particularly where sickness benefit is concerned. It's the frauds who make a mockery of those really in need.

Take what you get, before the money runs out! Hurry x

Indeed!

They are cheats.

Well i pay a lot of tax and if it goes to a wee girl working on the side to feed her kids i dont care. There is more abuse at the top than the bottom. The benefit system has to be sorted, i agree, but to get people back to work there has to be an incentive, and a decent wage, and childcare. Childcarers now want the minimum wage for caring for kids, and if thats what you earn whats the point? Plus where are the jobs??

Reckon it's way too complex a subject to judge....

i think that's fair enough to be honest - why should they look after someone elses kids for anything less? It's still a job isn't it?

Yes of course it is Soozy, thats what i mean. How can the Government expect people to  go back to work with kids, when the carers want the same wage Yes Tax Credits will pay some of it but not all, and it has to be someone outwith the family

I can understand families who would lose money by going to work, that is a total failure of those at the top of the tree which they claim to be addressing.

But what about able-bodied people, who are more than capable of going out and earning a wage but choose to cheat the system by either pretending they are unemployable or claiming to have an illness that prevents them from work, when the fact is they are more than capable and its just sheer laziness that stops them?

I know there has been a massive outcry regarding the DLA reforms and the complete overhaul of the benefits system, but if it weeds out the frauds and protects the genuine then it's a good thing.

It's the abuse of the disablity benefits that do my head in.    


I have a woman who works with me who drives a mobility car.     I say she drives it.   Actually... her daughter drops her off, then takes the car to college.     She (the 'disabled' one) then walks half a mile to the bus stop to get a bus home, gets off a mile and a half from home, collects her grandson from school, then walks the mile and a half home with him.



My sister also lived in a disabled adapted house until she moved in with her inlaws.    Her house was then let to a guy who was also on disablity benefits, with a mobility car.   The first thing he did was lay a drive... personally laying the 3 x 2 concrete slabs, in between working on the side as a roofer.



It's them sort that make it hard for the genuine cases, but I dont' know what the answer is.   (someone reported the bloke though (no, not me) and he lost his benefits)

Well if its DLA you want to discuss, its a different thing. I know many who are "are it", and shouldnt be on it. The only thing is, that getting rid of the chancers who get plenty, its making it far more difficult for genuine people. That is very sad

Actually I look after my grandchildren for nothing - truth be told I'd actually pay for the privilege! It's very hard for some folks though.

I look after my granddaughter too, when i can, to help my daughter out. I wouldnt dream of taking a penny, but i have to work too. My daughter tries so hard to work, but not much childcare that she can afford. Its very hard when people with young kids want to work but get penalised for it

 Benefit cheats are cockroaches and should be stomped on.

There are abusers of the benefits system as we all read about in the news nearly every day. It is these people that tar everyone with the same brush. The genuine claimants should have nothing to worry about, but with the new Tory reforms, how many genuine claimants will have their benefits stopped?I had mine stopped once years back and went to appeal, they ruled in my favour and was re-enstated. It all adds to the worry though. I just wonder how much this country would change if we had disabled people running it instead of these rich gits that have never had to scrimp and save?

Like most things, there's benefit cheats and there's benefit cheats!

I don't really have a problem with someone doing a few hours in a pub or shop and  claiming.  Claiming for kids etc you don't have and getting a bigger house is another matter.

There's a general hypocrisy that whereas people condemn people for working and claiming, they don't mind getting jobs done cash in hand for themselves.  Why does a comparatively rich tradesman deserve to get away with not paying their dues when a single mother working in a pub or café is condemned? 

When considering that the government clawback on benefits per extra pound earnt can be as much as 95p in the pound (a rate that would horrify the super-rich if it were applied to their earnings), it's hardly surprising some people do a bit on the side.

Carnelian

Every claimant has to have had a doctors certificate at some time or another. The easiest solution would be for the doctor to ascess them every 12 months. Surely their GP would know more about every individual case than any outside GP?

Nice post, Carnelian.  A lot of folks will do the cash in hand thing.  Got a plumber, do a job, what'll you take for cash?  It's VAT fraud folks, and the rest.  No receipt...fraud.

A lot of middle class pricks (that is NOT! aimed at anyone in here btw) have their friendly local handyman who does the occasional bits and bobs for them for cash money. 


Tax evasion and avoidance in this country pisses all over benefit fraud.  All should be tackled - qf'ing obviously but daily Mail'esque hysteria about benefits that we hear so much about atm kinda misses the whole picture.


Sorry, Canrns...*off rant* 

Not a big issue.

KARMA

quote:

I can understand families who would lose money by going to work, that is a total failure of those at the top of the tree which they claim to be addressing.

But what about able-bodied people, who are more than capable of going out and earning a wage but choose to cheat the system by either pretending they are unemployable or claiming to have an illness that prevents them from work, when the fact is they are more than capable and its just sheer laziness that stops them?

I know there has been a massive outcry regarding the DLA reforms and the complete overhaul of the benefits system, but if it weeds out the frauds and protects the genuine then it's a good thing

What she said up there,,,  I agree totally and couldn't have put it better myself..  Also agree that it doesnt hurt to claim benefits and have the odd little job bringing in £20 to £50 a week, like in a pub, because that can make someone's quality of life completely different.  I have known a few single mothers claim full benefits though, and have their fella living with them earning £200 a week .. now THAT I would grass up.  Because that is taking the piss.

If one accepts law-breaking/cheating one has already crossed the threshold.  The debate about what is acceptable/unacceptable is entirely a matter of numbers after that.  There's no absolute moral leg to stand on any more, clearly.

I agree Antiope ... if we agree to some benefit cheating then surely we agree to MPs fiddling some expenses. And Mr Smith's films didn't cost that much did they - so that's ok??

Mind you - having said that, I don't know how anyone could ever sort out the benefit system now. It would be impossible to overhaul it without causing distress to absolute genuine claimants.

It does need changing there are a lot of cheats about ..but how do they do it,you cant tar everyone with the same brush who is out of work, I worry there will be a lot of the cheats will get away with it and a lot of the genuine people wont, the same with people on the sick and disability/mobility there are ones on there who should not be claiming saying they  have bad backs and all sorts of things, I would not penalise an electrician or plumber etc who is working all week who did a job for someone on his weekend off and not declaring it,it is a really hard one,the problem with the tory government is it wont be done fairly and the most vulnerable will suffer along the way they are to radical with their cuts/changes and like all tory governments they could not give a hoot  about the ordinary working man, if you are sick/disabled god help you because they wont ..IMO

It doe needs to be clear and fair.  Set out rules.  It's no good complaining about one aspect of the system whilst simultaneously having shares in Barclays, for example, or chipping into a pension in such a company  Who knows where our limited monies are or what they're doing?.  I like to think I'm fairly well informed and I'm well versed in the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion: but really?

You can't tighten some belts whilst enjoying the fruits of the slackness of others and have any moral coherence or consistency.  By all means doing something is better than nothing but come on.

Please dont talk to me about tax avoidance I have always paid my tax I still do through my works pensions,months ago I had a letter saying I owed £2.363 because they had given me the wrong tax code their fault not mine although it is debatable to wether I did owe them money, I did pay them as I worried over it, more than can be said for all these big companies who were let off ..were was the fairness there..

Frauds and cheats from ALL classes should be stamped on......but all governments of whatever colour will target the easiest option, because that way they can be seen to be doing something...effective or not

Marge.....have you appealed against the tax charge?

Hi Kaytee no I did not appeal they said it had to be paid by the 7th of march I did speak to them on the phone which was a bit of a nightmare, I had everything I needed in front of me as the previous two years I felt I had paid to much tax they did not seem interested ,I gave in the end and sent them a check, I said to them I hope they get my tax code right this year,they had all my income details before they gave me a different tax code  I just cant take the hassle to be honest

Awww Marge.....if you think you have overpaid by the end of the tax year, contact me and I'll help you find out one way or the other

^^^^ THAT is what totally pisses me off. Disability benefits are there to help people genuinely in need, not someone who can happily walk a mile a day or who can lay their own blasted driveway.

Things like this I never gave much thought to be before but since my health changed it's really become a focus. Some of us would like nothing more than to be able to walk to the bloody shop let alone walk a mile a day while our offspring sod about in our mobility cars

The ATOS assessment system has come under severe scrutiny as it is deeming people as fit for work when they're clearly not - how do frauds manage to slip through the net? This is why where the ATOS assessment is concerned, I'm half and half. If the tighter system means that people such as the aforementioned are flushed out then great, but the assessment should be done by doctors who specialise in the area of the individual's case and all former history relating to the case should be taken into consideration.

I have no time for lazy feckers who can't be bothered to go out and work but are quite happy to sit back and take the handouts from those who do.

(I know I've just repeated myself but I don't care. They're scum.)

No you most certainly can't tar everyone with the same brush as some people are out of work through no choice of their own. It's not those that I mean, it's the ones who blatantly take the piss.

Very true. I'm really quite worried, I've only just been awarded DLA, after fighting for it for almost 3 years.Oh and I've been offered a new car in exchange for my weekly mobility allowance, but I would not dream of it. I have a lovely car and the mobility allowance pays towards insurance, petrol and mechanics.

You can use your mobility allowance to pay for a car through the DLA leasing company or put towards your own vehicle/transport costs, so you're not doing anything wrong Cologne.

I'm stunned that given your condition, not only did you have to fight but had to wait so long to get awarded??!

Kaytee  you are very kind thank you

Karma I am not sure how the disability new system is going to work to be honest will it be everyone who is claiming DLA/mobility at the moment who are getting scrutinised/looked at again which means some will lose it and some wont, or is it those who put in a new claims I dont think they have made it very clear what will happen as far as I am aware.. thank you

What they want to do is scrap DLA and replace it with a Personal Independence Payment (PiP). They say that every individual will need to be assessed, regardless of their condition (whether it is incurable or not). On the surface, they are saying that they want to help those in genuine need, but if you dig a bit deeper into the proposals there are things like 'if a person can freely push their own wheelchair then they will be deemed fit for work'.

Here are a few links that might explain it a bit better:

http://www.disabilitynow.org.u...ures/pip-replacement
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12141725

You can also put forward your thoughts straight to the Government:

http://dwp.gov.uk/consultations/2010/dla-reform.shtml

There is also a really great group called The Broken of Britain who are really on top of all this. Worth keeping an eye on their site:
http://thebrokenofbritain.org/