Just been watching the news and it seems as if the Attorney General, Baroness Scotland is thinking of appealing the sentences of the three people involved, she is deciding whether the sentences are too lenient. I must admit these people do seem to have got off very lightly considering the appalling injuries this child suffered. She has a month to decide and start the appeal process.
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Lets hope she does. The thought that the bloke who committed these atrocities could be out in ten years is a disgrace and weakens the publics' respect for the judicial system.
BDO posted a very interesting link and explained that the Judges hands were tied-in terms of the law he did the best he could.
Plus they have to convince the parole board to let them out (when the times comes)
It's not as clear cut as it sounds.
Plus they have to convince the parole board to let them out (when the times comes)
It's not as clear cut as it sounds.
shame there isn't the ...'chuck em in jail and throw away the key' sentence......
these people like many others in jail don't deserve to ever be free again......
these people like many others in jail don't deserve to ever be free again......
Good on her and I hope she succeeds.
Unfortunately, it can be all too easy to fool the parole board. Most of them are idiots.
Unfortunately, it can be all too easy to fool the parole board. Most of them are idiots.
I was watching Oprah yesterday and her programme was about abducted kids who have been reunited with the families. To cut a long story short one man who abducted an 11yr old boy and held him for 4 years got (drum roll) 74 consecutive life sentences!!!!!
I know the law is very different in the USA (federal states etc) but baby P's lot should be given the same sentence IMO. Lets hope Baroness Scotland does the right thing put that hideous lot away for a very, VERY long time.
I know the law is very different in the USA (federal states etc) but baby P's lot should be given the same sentence IMO. Lets hope Baroness Scotland does the right thing put that hideous lot away for a very, VERY long time.
I hope she goes ahead and does something. There was a ex-cricketer sentenced the other day for smuggling cocaine. He got 13 years, more than Baby Peter's mum and her scumbag boyfriend lodger did for the systematic torture and subsequent death of that little boy. It's disgusting. 
Sentencing in this country is an absolute disgrace. I read the other day that the suspect in respect of missing Madeleine McCann, has served numerous prison terms for the rape and kidnap of children. Some of these prison terms, were 2 years, or 4 years. Time and time again he has been released to walk the streets and rape and abuse children. He should've been locked up and the key thrown away the first time he did it.
quote:Originally posted by spongebob squarepants:
shame there isn't the ...'chuck em in jail and throw away the key' sentence......
these people like many others in jail don't deserve to ever be free again......
I was randomly flicking through the channels the other night and found a programme called 'Road Wars. The police in a State in the US had stopped this guy on the freeway for a traffic violation but, as he was playing up, the police yanked him out of his vehicle onto the ground and one policeman said to the other 'if he moves kill him'.
If only we could deal with the Baby P monsters this way - if only.
You can't call them animals because animals don't behave like that. They're evil monsters pure and simple and I wish we could mete out the same punishment that they inflicted on that dear little boy.
If, as many people think, prison is a soft option, what benefit is there to keeping them for x amount of years rather than y amount of years?
In a way, you either have to keep them in prison for ever or try to rehabilitate them so that they are fit to go back into the world.
In a way, you either have to keep them in prison for ever or try to rehabilitate them so that they are fit to go back into the world.
quote:Originally posted by fabienne:
In a way, you either have to keep them in prison for ever or try to rehabilitate them so that they are fit to go back into the world.
Keeping them in prison, keeps them off the street and protects the public.
Unfortunately, there are offenders who are cannot be rehabilitated - paedophiles in particular. Yes, I know that is debateable but imo they cannot be.
quote:Originally posted by fabienne:
If, as many people think, prison is a soft option, what benefit is there to keeping them for x amount of years rather than y amount of years?
In a way, you either have to keep them in prison for ever or try to rehabilitate them so that they are fit to go back into the world.
Prison as we know it in this country is a soft option IMO. All the comforts of home with 3 good meals a day, games consoles, tv etc etc etc. Punishment should mean just that. Why should those monsters have what that little boy will never have?
My opinions are harsh on subjects like this and I've been told off for them many times on forums but I won't change them. If we have to keep them locked up for years why should we give them "treats"?
quote:Originally posted by Cagney:quote:Originally posted by fabienne:
If, as many people think, prison is a soft option, what benefit is there to keeping them for x amount of years rather than y amount of years?
In a way, you either have to keep them in prison for ever or try to rehabilitate them so that they are fit to go back into the world.
Prison as we know it in this country is a soft option IMO. All the comforts of home with 3 good meals a day, games consoles, tv etc etc etc. Punishment should mean just that. Why should those monsters have what that little boy will never have?
My opinions are harsh on subjects like this and I've been told off for them many times on forums but I won't change them. If we have to keep them locked up for years why should we give them "treats"?
Did you see recently all the games consoles that have been bought for prisoners, I had to work long and hard for the one that my kids have and they get them for free?!
quote:Originally posted by Cagney:quote:Originally posted by fabienne:
If, as many people think, prison is a soft option, what benefit is there to keeping them for x amount of years rather than y amount of years?
In a way, you either have to keep them in prison for ever or try to rehabilitate them so that they are fit to go back into the world.
Prison as we know it in this country is a soft option IMO. All the comforts of home with 3 good meals a day, games consoles, tv etc etc etc. Punishment should mean just that. Why should those monsters have what that little boy will never have?
My opinions are harsh on subjects like this and I've been told off for them many times on forums but I won't change them. If we have to keep them locked up for years why should we give them "treats"?
For the purely practical reason that to dehumanise them further is going to make them even worse when they come out. If they're coming out one day, we want them to be better people.
quote:Originally posted by Mentalist:quote:Originally posted by Cagney:quote:Originally posted by fabienne:
If, as many people think, prison is a soft option, what benefit is there to keeping them for x amount of years rather than y amount of years?
In a way, you either have to keep them in prison for ever or try to rehabilitate them so that they are fit to go back into the world.
Prison as we know it in this country is a soft option IMO. All the comforts of home with 3 good meals a day, games consoles, tv etc etc etc. Punishment should mean just that. Why should those monsters have what that little boy will never have?
My opinions are harsh on subjects like this and I've been told off for them many times on forums but I won't change them. If we have to keep them locked up for years why should we give them "treats"?
Did you see recently all the games consoles that have been bought for prisoners, I had to work long and hard for the one that my kids have and they get them for free?!
I did read about it and it sickens me. There are decent people out there who can't afford to heat thier homes,people who can't afford little luxuries like new clothes and yet there are prisoners who can live in relative luxury. It makes no sense except it does as long as there are people going on about equal rights for all. These people lose any rights they had the minute they harm/abuse/rape/kill a child....again...IMO
I agree with you, Cagney, except that if these people are coming out one day, I don't want them to be even more monstrous than before they went in.
quote:Originally posted by fabienne:quote:Originally posted by Cagney:quote:Originally posted by fabienne:
If, as many people think, prison is a soft option, what benefit is there to keeping them for x amount of years rather than y amount of years?
In a way, you either have to keep them in prison for ever or try to rehabilitate them so that they are fit to go back into the world.
Prison as we know it in this country is a soft option IMO. All the comforts of home with 3 good meals a day, games consoles, tv etc etc etc. Punishment should mean just that. Why should those monsters have what that little boy will never have?
My opinions are harsh on subjects like this and I've been told off for them many times on forums but I won't change them. If we have to keep them locked up for years why should we give them "treats"?
For the purely practical reason that to dehumanise them further is going to make them even worse when they come out. If they're coming out one day, we want them to be better people.
Do we really want or need people like that back on the streets again though? They aren't children with no idea of the consequences of their actions. They weren't acting on a moment of impulse. They abused and tortured him over months.
quote:Originally posted by fabienne:
I agree with you, Cagney, except that if these people are coming out one day, I don't want them to be even more monstrous than before they went in.
Which is why I believe life should mean life.
I do enjoy a good debate btw
quote:Originally posted by Cagney:
Do we really want or need people like that back on the streets again though? They aren't children with no idea of the consequences of their actions. They weren't acting on a moment of impulse. They abused and tortured him over months.
No, we don't want them back. But they let them out.
quote:Originally posted by fabienne:quote:Originally posted by Cagney:
Do we really want or need people like that back on the streets again though? They aren't children with no idea of the consequences of their actions. They weren't acting on a moment of impulse. They abused and tortured him over months.
No, we don't want them back. But they let them out.
Were you ever involved in the debates on ch4? Some on there said that EVERYONE deserved the same rights. I believe that MOST do but not all. In the case of baby Peter they should be given no rights apart from the right to stay alive
quote:Originally posted by Cagney:quote:Originally posted by fabienne:quote:Originally posted by Cagney:
Do we really want or need people like that back on the streets again though? They aren't children with no idea of the consequences of their actions. They weren't acting on a moment of impulse. They abused and tortured him over months.
No, we don't want them back. But they let them out.
Were you ever involved in the debates on ch4? Some on there said that EVERYONE deserved the same rights. I believe that MOST do but not all. In the case of baby Peter they should be given no rights apart from the right to stay alive
I have confused views on this. On the one hand, I think that if they're locked up, they have to be treated humanely because they're coming out one day. Another part of me could kill them with my bare hands.
There's humanely and there is spoiling IMO. Humanely is to house them, feed them and possibly educate them.
True. 
quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Good on her and I hope she succeeds.
Unfortunately, it can be all too easy to fool the parole board. Most of them are idiots .
Bit suprised at this very sweeping statement LL
. Apart from gut reaction how do you know?
quote:Originally posted by HyacinthB:quote:Originally posted by spongebob squarepants:
shame there isn't the ...'chuck em in jail and throw away the key' sentence......
these people like many others in jail don't deserve to ever be free again......
I was randomly flicking through the channels the other night and found a programme called 'Road Wars. The police in a State in the US had stopped this guy on the freeway for a traffic violation but, as he was playing up, the police yanked him out of his vehicle onto the ground and one policeman said to the other 'if he moves kill him'.
If only we could deal with the Baby P monsters this way - if only.
You can't call them animals because animals don't behave like that. They're evil monsters pure and simple and I wish we could mete out the same punishment that they inflicted on that dear little boy.
So this country adopting corrupt American Cop Summary Justice Law is the way to go then?
quote:Originally posted by Rev. Dim Dale:quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Good on her and I hope she succeeds.
Unfortunately, it can be all too easy to fool the parole board. Most of them are idiots .
Bit suprised at this very sweeping statement LL
Apart from gut reaction how do you know?
There was a documentary on C4 (I think) a while back about people who sit on parole boards and how they come to the decisions they sometimes come too. It was a bit of an eye opener
quote:Originally posted by Rev. Dim Dale:
Bit suprised at this very sweeping statement LL
Apart from gut reaction how do you know?
And what sort of people are on the parole board for a given prisoner?
quote:Originally posted by Cagney:
Were you ever involved in the debates on ch4? Some on there said that EVERYONE deserved the same rights. I believe that MOST do but not all. In the case of baby Peter they should be given no rights apart from the right to stay alive
Human rights are there because people are human. One of the fundamental principles, at least for the absolute ones, is that there are no exceptions. Undermine that and they're on their way to being worthless.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by Cagney:
Were you ever involved in the debates on ch4? Some on there said that EVERYONE deserved the same rights. I believe that MOST do but not all. In the case of baby Peter they should be given no rights apart from the right to stay alive
Human rights are there because people are human. One of the fundamental principles, at least for the absolute ones, is that there are no exceptions. Undermine that and they're on their way to being worthless.
Do you mean the "absolute ones" are on thier way to being worthless?
If it's the people who killed Peter then I think they are worthless already.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Undermine that and they're on their way to being worthless.
I would certainly call the abusers and killer of Baby P worthless, along with the likes of Hindley, Brady and the likes.
quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Undermine that and they're on their way to being worthless.
I would certainly call the abusers and killer of Baby P worthless, along with the likes of Hindley, Brady and the likes.
I dunno what it is with me but I just cannot see the reasoning with anyone saying these people deserve a second chance. I cannot understand anyone saying they deserve the same rights as say you or I.
quote:Originally posted by Cagney:
Do you mean the "absolute ones" are on thier way to being worthless?
If it's the people who killed Peter then I think they are worthless already.
No. Some rights are qualified rights, like the right to privacy, and some are absolute, like the right not to be tortured. The qualified ones can be balanced against other qualified rights.
Baby P's abusers? Scum, I imagine, although I struggle to imagine that sort of evil. That's not rhetoric, I really can't conceive of it. I have to assume they're sociopaths or psychopaths for peace of mind but I think they were tested for insanity and found not to be.
Perhaps bizarrely, I feel I ought to allow for the possibility of personal redemption at some point even though I'm an atheist and I want punishment but not revenge.
quote:Originally posted by Cagney:quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Undermine that and they're on their way to being worthless.
I would certainly call the abusers and killer of Baby P worthless, along with the likes of Hindley, Brady and the likes.
I dunno what it is with me but I just cannot see the reasoning with anyone saying these people deserve a second chance. I cannot understand anyone saying they deserve the same rights as say you or I.
The fact that these 'people' can go on and have other lives after they leave their short prison sentences makes your blood run cold.
quote:Originally posted by Cagney:
I dunno what it is with me but I just cannot see the reasoning with anyone saying these people deserve a second chance. I cannot understand anyone saying they deserve the same rights as say you or I.
I'm the same but in the opposite direction. I kind of understand rage but the principles are a worldview thing, I reckon.
When Saddam was executed, I was on the C4 forum for most of the night. I didn't want him hanged and I certainly didn't want the indignity his captors subjected him to at the end. That's about me rather than about him, if you see what I mean. He was a piece of shit.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by Cagney:
Do you mean the "absolute ones" are on thier way to being worthless?
If it's the people who killed Peter then I think they are worthless already.
No. Some rights are qualified rights, like the right to privacy, and some are absolute, like the right not to be tortured. The qualified ones can be balanced against other qualified rights.
Baby P's abusers? Scum, I imagine, although I struggle to imagine that sort of evil. That's not rhetoric, I really can't conceive of it. I have to assume they're sociopaths or psychopaths for peace of mind but I think they were tested for insanity and found not to be.
Perhaps bizarrely, I feel I ought to allow for the possibility of personal redemption at some point even though I'm an atheist and I want punishment but not revenge.
My mistake. I read "absolute ones" as meaning people rather than rights
I think most people struggle to imagine that sort of evil but it's happening all the time. Scum is the only word I can say on here that I feel describes them. Whatever happens to them personally I don't care as long as they are off the streets for the rest of thier lives.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by Cagney:
I dunno what it is with me but I just cannot see the reasoning with anyone saying these people deserve a second chance. I cannot understand anyone saying they deserve the same rights as say you or I.
I'm the same but in the opposite direction. I kind of understand rage but the principles are a worldview thing, I reckon.
When Saddam was executed, I was on the C4 forum for most of the night. I didn't want him hanged and I certainly didn't want the indignity his captors subjected him to at the end. That's about me rather than about him, if you see what I mean. He was a piece of shit.
Hanging Saddam didn't put me up nor down. How blaze is that?
quote:Originally posted by Cagney:
I dunno what it is with me but I just cannot see the reasoning with anyone saying these people deserve a second chance. I cannot understand anyone saying they deserve the same rights as say you or I.
l'm the same. People like this give up the right to be treated like decent citizens and do not deserve a second chance.
quote:Originally posted by Cagney:
Hanging Saddam didn't put me up nor down. How blaze is that?
Seems fine to me. People are interested in some topics and not others.
Lots of people were calling for his torture and stuff, such as short drop hanging, at the time. To be honest, I found that particularly disturbing. And immoral. In fact, that sort of thing makes me realise how various horrible regimes in recent history managed to find their concentration camp guards: from the rank and file.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by Cagney:
Hanging Saddam didn't put me up nor down. How blaze is that?
Seems fine to me. People are interested in some topics and not others.
Lots of people were calling for his torture and stuff, such as short drop hanging, at the time. To be honest, I found that particularly disturbing. And immoral. In fact, that sort of thing makes me realise how various horrible regimes in recent history managed to find their concentration camp guards: from the rank and file.
I can understand people calling for torture in his case. I didn't personally but I can see why others would. That doesn't make them bad people. So many have been affected by that mans actions.
Back to baby Peter though.
quote:Originally posted by Cagney:
I can understand people calling for torture in his case. I didn't personally but I can see why others would. That doesn't make them bad people. So many have been affected by that mans actions.
Back to baby Peter though.
I can understand the people affected wanting that. It's the armchair people that I cannot, and I think they're bad people. Or, at least, I think they have a well of badness in them.
For the Baby P abusers, I like the idea that they're subject to an indefinite sentence because potentially that may be a whole life sentence or perhaps a very long one. For the rapist, I'd like to think he will spend a lot of his life in there. But that's mostly feelings as I don't know the full details.