Bloody hell Annoca, I don't know anything about then benefits in Ireland but can't the CAB help in any way or even contacting your MP? Sorry if these are not options or some you have already tried, would really like to try and suggest something but don't know what else to say to be honest.

Just hope it doesn't come to what you say it may do.

Karma - 

If you were to meet someone in a pub who pissed you off, who argued for the sake of it, who pushed your buttons....what would you do?

Do you go tell them and have a year long argument? Slap them round the chops and if they slap you back......fairs fair? Or.....just realise that we're a bit older now and people are gonna disagree with you??? 

Lifes too short (which I've found out recently)

And those 27,000 people will have to start reducing their outgoings - Cutting back on spending in their local shops which will then see a reduction in the takings and may subsequently have lay off some of the staff.   This in return could lead to retail outlets being left empty which means councils are left with a deficit in the commercial rents/business rates for the property.

I see your point and totally understand where you're coming from, really I do. Talking about the pub thing, difficult to say how I'd react to be honest, depends on who was pushing the buttons and what the situation was. I've had people online who I've disagreed with for years but it very rarely gets to this kind of stage with this particular poster tbh. I actually went against the grain of what I normally do and tried to approach in a different way, but it didn't work so I'm gonna leave addressing the person now.

I need to get to my bed, have been up and doon like a whore's draws with sleep these last few days and am knackerooonied. See youse all later x

Cagney, you say you have similar POV's to PP and that is fine, BUT I have seen you in other threads cede a point or accept with grace that someone may know better than you about something. I have done it myself on occasion.
I have never seen that with PP - and sadly, like a lot of the others on here, I am no longer going to debate with her because( as Karma said) this is a great forum and I do not want to ruin it with arguments and feuds.

Just reading thru the thread and saw this. ..the NHS is a Postcode Lottery nowadays. .20-30 yrs ago people all over the country had exactly the same chance to get treatment.. now some die and some live. .

Same with Education.. . now it's hit or miss too..

if that means we've never had it so good then gawd I'd rather go back to the bad old times of 30 yrs or more  and forfiet my 'gadgets' thank you very much..

So much more was so much better then... the past few yrs seem to be nowt but a continuing struggle with no respite from the worry of how to cope with ever increasing costs against static or decreasing income..

Never had it so good?  yeah right

from what I've seen so far that is utter rubbish. .it is an emotive subject which people are bound to comment on and discuss. .the fact those people seem to hold differing opinions to the OP and are trying to debate with her in response to her replies to them is in no way Ganging up or Bullying..

If you don't; want a debate with people don't start a thread for discussion about an emotive subject..

simples

finally got to the end..

for what it's worth I am not a leftie. .I am a bit right of middle. .I dunno if the majority on here are lefties. .I suspect that isn't the case just those that aren't may not have said so cos of the kinda rough treatment any non leftie got during the election lead up.. there was a lot of passionate stuff posted that sometimes seemed a bit aggressive more than passionate.. I know I kept away from discussions then.. and currently I am a non anything cos I don't; trust any party.. in fact I doubt I'd vote in an election if there was one in the near future..

I just felt I had to say that cos I didn't like the 'everybody' or 'majority of' label that was given to members here..  I am an individual with views based on my feelings about a particular subject not based on what any political party has as their core beliefs cos not a one of them represents the whole me.. ..

Oh and I felt for Blizzie trying to get her argument out about her hubbies past illness in that thread.. mainly cos I suffer from the exact same thing he did and have done for 15 yrs and it has got steadily worse. . I stayed away from that thread cos my anxiety was extra bad that day and the whole thing upset me.. plus the previous day I had had to go for a dental check up and had been sweating and shaking, and was about to turn into a mad out of control shrieking woman and just aching to get home asap and collapse with the exhaustion of just being out for less than an hour... but I do want to say well done Blizzie for sticking around while he was going thru that.. it helps to overcome things when you have a partner to help. .


I also think it's bad that the majority of last two pages has not been a discussion about the initial subject but an attack on the contributors to the actual topic.. 

anyway as usual I am late to a discussion and have waffled on

I will now shurrup  cos I've spammed the end of this thread  and probably killed it too

I don't think its wise to make a thread saying "We've never had it so good" when there are members on here who are in a right mess in rl. Its daft to try and speak for the majority and say life is good when its not for all.

And this comment tops it off,

"27,000 people losing jobs is such a small proportion of the population."

Selfishness... yeah why worry when its not me. Did the OP consider that even 1 of those 27,000 may possibly be on this forum?

Its complete muppetry.

Don't like it... p*ss off, simples

I had no idea. Can't imagine how awful that must be 
I love your posts - always really nicely balanced!

  Olly!


It's a bloody horrible thing to live with, Olly. (Anxiety, not me)


He's much better than he was was, but the Dentist is the worst of his triggers. I have to secretly make an appointment and tell him on the day of the appointment. Guessing whether he will be free, at that time, on that day, is not easy!

 

Blizzie. ..

it isn't the Dentist thing that freaked me out it is the being out thing that freaks me out.. the agoraphobia thing is a side affect of the Anxiety stuff .. fear of going out for fear of having an attack while out. .[catch 22] which gets worse when you are having loads of attacks a day. .or the attack is just below the surface day in day out and you strain to keep it all at bay adding to stress and tension..  plus when I do go out I can;t use public transport nor a cab nor walk cos I need complete control to make sure I can get home to my 'safe' place as quickly as possible so I have to use my car so I can park near where I am going and know it's there if I really get a bad attack and can jump in and rush back home..

the fact it is there takes some of the stress away making it less likely I'll have an attack... I put less than 50 miles a yr on my car nowadays with the short trips I have to do to Docs etc.. but considering it's 35 yrs old that's more than enough for it to deal with..    I would be absolutely lost if I couldn't have my car. .I really would... 

And thanks Soozy ..I don't usually talk about it [sometimes just doing that can bring on an attack or make one worse] but that thread hit a nerve and I could empathise with what Blizzie said about her hubby too  .. plus my OH did a runner when I got mine so I wanted to tell her yay girl for staying or her hubby could have got far worse as I did

 and I do try to be balanced.. .I may be a tad bonkers in the head but some of my brain is still relatively sane and some of it has fallen out completely..

but don;t mention the Poles cos I loose all rationality then. well if anything horrid is said about them...  .that's my red rag subject.. 

Ugh... anxiety I used to have counselling for it, got fed up and went to the doctor asking if I could get medication instead. I was young at the time when I had it and they refused to give it me. So still see a counsellour every now and again. Better than I was years ago anyway.

I still maintain this whole thing points to how divided this country's become.  Pretty_P argues that overall saying "we've never had it so good" isn't far off, well to my mind, there's an element of truth there.  Certainly the bankers who got us into this mess are no worse off.  The political classes still have the same opportunities to feather their nests and areas of the South East are hardly touched by the downturn.  The poorest (areas and people) are paying disproportionately to repair 'broken Britain' but won't see any reward for doing so, that will be creamed off by the rich, affluent middle classes and upper working classes.

Like in the 1980s the government is about to embark on a fire sale of the state's silverware, which is almost certain to generate a money for nothing windfall for those with a bit of spare cash.  Like in the 80s, the Tories believe that as long as you keep the affluent in the South happy and unemployment from their door, then they'll vote Tory - and there's certainly a precedent for them to believe that.

I'm not fooled by Cameron, he's the slyest PM we've ever had.  We're in a propaganda transition period.  The unemployed are no longer victims as the Tories described them when Labour were in office but are now idle and lazy.  It's a well known fact that the unemployed go from being victims under Labour gov'ts to being work-shy under the Tories. 

Likewise, after three years of Cameron and the Tories talking down the economy at every opportunity, the focus will soon switch to talking up the economy and how wonderful things are under the coalition.  Lord Young's comments are just a bit too early in this cycle to go down well with Cameron.

glad to hear that. .it's not an easy thing to overcome..

oh and well done on doing it without meds. .I was bunged on Valium. .in high doses for a long time. .am still trying to get off that now. .am on small dose now so nearly there.

and been there, done all them counsellor things. .didn't work this time.. made things worse in some respects... all that navel gazing stuff :

I had had a few epsidoes in the past and managed to get over them,. .this was harder as there was no family or support sytem around that I could trust, what with the OH of the time doing a runner and no close family .. plus a load of other factors over the years added to stuff.  but ho hum.. .

anyway one day I'll be off out again in my old banger... further than the Docs and local shop and without a care in the world... til then I'll snuggle on me sofa in my safe place trying to cling on to sanity

oh and back on topic. .I live in the South East just about everybody I know is having it tough. .wondering when they will get the chop from work...wondering when they will get a job...   wondering how to cope with ever increasing cost of living .. 

dunno where this 'they're alright in the South' malarkey comes from.. strikes me everybody is suffering... except for the very rich..

Don't agree with that. The last 3 London companies I've worked for since 2006 have all seen major redundancies (I was affected in two instances). All 3 are major corporates with staff employment of 10k or more with HQ's being London based. One example (and one where I was affected), one division that employed 150 employees had to reduce 45 staff, that's a hell of a lot of staff in one go. Those unaffected by the redundancies were immediately given extra workloads to make up for the shortage (as all contracts say 'your role may change and you may need to work hours outside of your contracted working hours should the company deem it necessary' so you have no leg to stand on).

My best friend works in the Job Centre and deals with new claims. (Has done for 3 years). She has been shocked at the amount of grads/experienced people who have passed through the doors in that time, who have simply been made redundant through no fault of their own (well, I can safely say their downfall was having experience, not being in the company for longer than 2 years and  earning a medium - high salary as companies were trying to make the most cost-effective savings and mid-management or those on a 'medium' salary were usually the first affected).

Trying to work your way through a recession is tough as salaries that require a certain level of experience (in the South East) fell by approximately 5-9k per annum. It was an employer's market and while some had no choice but to do this just to break even, some also took full advantage of the situation and employed adequately qualified people at a vast reduction of their normal salary, saving a median of 7k per head. A lot of families' disposable income had been severely reduced, with some families being better off if they were unemployed. It was a gloomy time for everyone (bar the fat cats who were greedy and those, like politicians, who earned a decent enough salary to not feel the difference).

I'm more than aware that this is minimal in comparison to being made redundant, (having been in both situations) and last year saw a definite increase in salaries as it was being bandied about that the country was now 'out of recession'. However, since the Tories have made their announcements on 'tough times ahead', it has sent shockwaves through the sectors and companies are looking to tighten their belts once again, making it harder to get a job, the candidate ratio going through the roof once more...etc.

For most, while to have a job in this economic climate is still undoubtedly more beneficial than not having one, it still affects the employed for reasons stated above.

well all I csn say is - posted by Karma 23/10/10 10.41 (forum time)


Oh get over yourself. I'll talk to you how I damn well like, your attitude demands nothing more. And if you want the truth, wise and intelligent would be lost on you cos you've got your head wedged so firmly up your arse all you can smell is your own shit.
How about you put your qualities to good use and go flip some burgers or summat?

Somebody posted earlier about CIN however I believe that is a good example of the point I am trying to make her.  Unfortunately children suffering in mahy different circumstances is a sad fact of life, onr that has always been there and probably always will however isn't it brilliant that we have this amazing charity to help these children and try and make their lives better in some way.  Aren't we better off with a chrity that can help children who are suffering than we were without it.

Someone also mentioned children with Aspergers - years ago such children were put in institutions where they had no quality of life - nowadays they are able to live like all other children - go to school etc.  Now I am not saying I understand what it is like to suffer from such an illness however I will say aren't such children better off now than they were 30 years ago??

Damn right I posted that, AFTER attempts to try and hold an adult conversation with you were met with immature retorts and multiple toys being thrown out of your pram, purely because you didn't like any kind of reason possibly diluting your complaint/whinge. As I said before, for every post someone makes pointing out possible solutions, you find a 100 reasons why not and just seem hell bent on persistent arguing, only seeing your own viewpoint instead of trying to discuss things. It's like dealing with a spoilt brat to tell you the truth and I personally don't have the patience to keep entertaining it

Now if you would be so kind to leave me alone, I will leave you alone. Simples

oh dear and there was I thinking this thread managed to stay open and out of the troll tank and had returned on topic..

looks like it's heading that way now.. 

Not a good idea to further your point of view by having a full on abusive rant really  PP

I have done but then you moaned that I was ignoring you - I would happily never speak to you again after the way you spoke to me the other week - I wouldn't even speak to my worst enemy the way you spoke to me.

isn;t that more to do with Science and Research that is always evolving so as time goes by more is learnt about things and more solutions can be found than the fact we are better off now?

And even if they can diagnose the illness don;t loads more go undiagnosed and unhelped cos there aren't the funds in this supposed much better time?

No I know - I just snapped - tbf though I have faced a lot of abuse on this forum and never snapped I don't think anyone could criticise me for snapping just once.

quite possibly however we are still better off if these kids are getting the help they need rather than being pushed into asylums and ignored - therefore whilst nobody would ever say aspergers is easy or something to be happy about people with the disease are a lot better off than they were 30 years ago.


But surely if just one more person gets diagnosed we are in a better position

Seriously tho snapping isn't going to help is it.. ? You know you have an abrasive way of putting things, even if you don't; mean it to come over like that it does, and you also have an unusual 'debating' style... hence some people get a tad het up now and again..   I could have snapped in your stress anxiety thread the other day cos the subject was so emotive and so close to my heart but I chose not to join in... was better all round and for my health stress levels too

Not sure what the amount of social welfare is in the UK, but certainly in Ireland it doesn't come close to your earnings, which means those who lose their jobs face the inability to pay their mortgages and UK Courts are apparently vicious when it comes to repossessions.

What other aspects could you not complain about now, that you could 20/30 years ago?

yes but going back to the initial statement of 'we've never had it so good' overall the health service is much worse than it ever was and people are dying because of where they live sometimes. .others wait and wait for help and get little or nowt..

30 yrs ago the same treatment was available to all regardless of where they lived..

I am generalising on all ills here because bringing it down to one illness that is now looked at and more understood hardly constitutes an improvement overall.

I'm not offended, I'm very excited I made it onto a list - I never get a mention!

I live in what's classed with the South East (East Anglia) and I have to say that there's been little impact so far.  The stats speak for themselves.  I'm out of work and finding it a struggle but on the whole unemployment isn't hitting the region as hard as other areas.   Those on the periphery of work in the good times are expendable in the bad times - and I'm one of those.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the South is not hit, and I'm not saying there aren't areas in the south that aren't being clobbered. I'm just saying that the south is sufficiently protected from the worst of this to carry the Tories over the finishing line as far as keeping their seats goes. 

If we had an election tomorrow, the local Tory vote would turn out at full strength because the affluent Tory voters around here are doing just fine.  House prices haven't dropped that much and low interest rates are a big advantage to those with mortgages.

actually if I was to sum up the overall info from the majority in this thread as a snapshot of Society I'd say that plonker got it completely wrong. .

it would seem the majority have  had it a lot better in their lifetimes,.. cos obviously we can't compare to lifetimes long long ago when expectations and needs etc were different..  

In my experience the health service is actually a lot better - about 10 years ago I needed a hospital app for something pretty worrying however afetr about 1 month of waiting for an app I was offered one 6 weeks later - a family member recently had a similar problem they go an app within 2 weeks of visiting the GP.  I have also ahd a lot of experience with the NHS recently for various family members and I have no complaints about their care compared to how it was just 10 years ago.  Now I am not saying it is perfect and without flaws - far from it - however I believe the improvements in this area over recent years have been imense.

Carnelian I'd say it isn't so much the South not having as bad a time of it as in one town anywhere in the country things can not be too bad yet in the enxt it can be dire. .I honestly don;t think it is regional in a large sense as all the country benefits from low interest rates on mortgages and business too. .in fact for businesses if they can keep going via low interest rates mores the better cos then then can keep their workforce and that's less on benefits 

I may be wrong tho ..

I don't think needs have changed - expectations maybe.  In fact our expectations are far higher than they have ever been and I think that is why a lot of people believe they are no better off now - we demand more than we ever have in our day to day lives.

Lord Young was an idiot to make such a sweeping statement and he's been sacked, so far so good. However, he was both right and wrong...it all depends on the circumstances in which people find themselves.
If you have stable employment, your health and a mortgage, then this recession has benefitted you , if not then you're screwed.
There is also the matter of geographical location, some areas will always be better off than others, that has always been the case.

As for the ganging up and sarcy comments to PP...I know that this forum has a left-wing bias, but I agree with Cagney here, Hevva does seem to have been ganged up on, even if some of her comments reflect her immaturity

right...I'm outta here

and there I have to take you back to my initial post about the health service. .you seem to have got lucky in your area.. in mine it is compeltely rubbish

that was the point I was making... it shouldn't be good in one place and bad in another it shoudl eb the same across the board and it isn't any more...

anyways I need go do stuff.. laters

PP People are scared and fear is never good. 

"you never had is so good" is insulting and patronising.

OK if a Scottish fishing village was losing all its jobs would you try and cheer them up by saying

"hay you never had it so good ... at least the Vikings are not attacking and raping and pillaging your just losing your house be grateful your not being press ganged into the navy or been eaten by the Bean family"

No it shouldn't however surely it is better than it was - rather than everywhere being bad some places have improved - Now we know how to do it we are in a position to assist the areas with problems.