Can you blame her? 

I've managed to have debates with her so why can't anyone else? We share a lot of the same views.

Dont' worry Joe, Lord Young will be back now he's on his uppers

I feel honoured!

Which one is Lord Young then, though?

If someone apologises to me, then I accept it...

*shrugs*

We are all different I suppose

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I made a list WAHOOOOO 

Night crazy ladies

If the people in this country simply backed down and accepted the opinion of that goat politician person who said 'we've never had it so good', then what is that teaching our kids? If the people who are affected by the Tories plans for this country do not speak up and try to instill a medium of some kind, then what state will this country be in by the time our kids grow up?

If disabled people, or any demographic who is not considered 'the norm', are being treated with ignorance in 2010 and conditions that affect their lives (of which there are many) - are not being taken seriously or considered on an individual basis - then how does that not only the affect the people of today but the generation of tomorrow?

We, as a population, are being treated as numbers. We are no longer considered as individuals. People who were fit and well to work last year may not be this year. Things happen, lives change, people get ill, families separate, but it seems the Tories want to ignore that fact.

As a mum I'm more worried about what my son will have to face when he finishes his education, I'm worried for the children with illnesses like Aspergers or who were born disabled and will spend their whole lives trying to fit in to society, while needing the support to do so will be paramount for that to happen but wont be offered by this Government.

'We've never had it so good' may well apply to those in Parliament or who have enough disposable income each month that their accounts are never in the red, but until someone has walked in another man's shoes they cannot possibly understand how hard it can be to survive in today's society.

As a parting shot I also feel honoured to be in that list which isn't a clique. (and I miss Leccy)

Karma!  

Nail.on.head. (From my point of view anyway, can't and wont speak for anyone else)

Today’s events are very telling indeed with regard to power and spin.

Lord Young’s let the cat out the bag that many people are and will sail through this recession unscathed.  In particular, the well to do and those in the affluent South East. 

No doubt Lord Young’s shares have risen, his house is worth more, he’s in his later years but his income will still be impressive.  There’s no chance of him losing his home.  No wonder he says “this so-called recession”! It’s not a recession for him and neither is it for Cameron or Clegg or almost all the political classes including many in the Labour party.

Lord Young has only voiced what many Tories and their supporters in the affluent areas of the country are thinking and experiencing.  It is a truth that we aren’t all in this together and those being clobbered by this are invisible to those geographically and socially removed from it.

If you’re lucky enough to stay in work and have a bit of money behind you, recessions can actually make you better off.  Bank of England Base Rate Interest at an all-time low, companies can drive down costs, cut wages, picking over the bones of repossessed houses and cheaper prices in the shops. 

If like me, you end up out of work, then you’re essentially screwed!

This goes down like a lead balloon with Cameron/Clegg/Osborne/Danny Alexander because although they are Thatcherite politicians pushing Thatcherite dogma, they don’t want to be seen as such.  It’s just bad PR for them!

Lord Young is a yesterday’s man of the 1980s generation of now elderly Tory politicians who no longer have a strong power-base within the Tory Party.  Cameron can easily make an example of Lord Young for that reason. 

Compare and contrast to what powerful Murdoch media man Andy Coulson has been accused of - he’s still very much in a job. 

Hmmmm... where has Leccy gone? Forgot all about her.

Exactly.

Were she to post something that I agreed with, then I would say so. But she consistently posts things that I disagree with...

Ta Blizz I was trying to address the question of the thread!

People disagree with me at home, work, supermarket.....the lot. I don't give a damn. It's still my opinion. This forum is a small percent of society. Majority of a forum of about 50? I don't care how many members there are registered. There's probably about 50 or less regular posters.

You scoundrel!

I think we all tried that, at first.

And it's still our opinion.

Just because more of us disagree, than agree, it doesn't mean we are bullying her.

I think its all to do with the avatar... homer in a dress can be quite Intimidating

Absolutely. Been in both situations and have experienced both sides of that 'coin'. From the days of being able to take advantage of the retail sector having to reduce prices just to break even, to having to survive on approx 20% of my former income (and an income I had enjoyed and had become accustomed to for many years). It's not an easy transition to make, and if the Tories and those who support the proposals think it is, then my suggestion would be that they spend a month posing as a person trying to claim benefits and seeing how hard it is to claim those benefits, to feel accepted and of any worth, to be treated with the same regard as a person earning 100k a year, to not be spoken to and treated like a second class citizen, cos that's what happens to people out of work, regardless of the reason.

If they tried living someone else's life maybe THEN they'll understand why people are not agreeing with their delusions of grandeur.

***lifts dress up, briefly*** 

It's not the amount that disagree Blizzie. It's the way the amount disagree. Some have argued their point but it always resorts to the same old argument......what's happened in the past, name calling etc. If it bothers people so much then don't go in her threads but IMO there are so many here that relish her threads. Something to get your teeth into.

Sadly true ...........well done Cagney you put it into words that are beyond me (especially tonight anyway)

I have brought up old threads. Mainly because I have been ignored by her, despite posting stuff relevant to her threads, some of it quite personal.

I can't say it bothers me, as I said, I enjoy a good debate, but she wouldn't come on here and post thread after thread referring to contentious issues, if she didn't want some response.

Ello Caggers x

I'll be totally honest, yep in former days I used to just laugh at threads that she would start (mainly over on C4), in the same way I would laugh at some others as I knew exactly what the content would be and knew how it would end up, and yep I went in and pointed and laughed. However, lately, I have genuinely tried to offer some kind of intelligent response or variation of viewpoint, but it was met with the same hostility and aggression any such responses are met with (myself and other people). Initially, she did respond to my posts, but in the same way that there is an argument that she is potentially being ganged up on, as one individual poster to another (me to her) - I got incredibly frustrated with her retorts at any kind of solution or difference of her opinion and what appears to be ignorance and lack of insight to be able to address the subject in hand the way she claims she wants to. She doesn't even try to debate or discuss in a mature way, if she has a problem (talking about the work thread here and her frustration) if you/me offer a solution to a problem you're/I'm met with 100 reasons why 'not' and a totally defeatist attitude.

With this thread, there is a wealth of life experience here, people who have experienced situations, illness, have had to make sacrifices...and from a personal POV she has shown total disregard for this and as normal, has just stomped all over anything anybody has to say, constantly driving her own point home and saying things like 'I feel sorry for your friend/relative' BUT lets get some perspective (sic) things are still not that bad. As if to say 'yes ok I can see where you're coming from but you're still moaning over stuff that doesn't really need to be moaned about'. This is the attitude she gives out and from what I can see, that others pick up on. Not that bad for HER maybe, but bad for people who have been affected by situations that she mentions and seems to just dismiss as being of little importance when looking at the bigger picture. Is it any wonder people get fed up? *shrugs*


I hope that all made sense!

Perfect sense, Karma.

of course she wants  a response. Everyone who posts a thread here does. Some do it worded perfectly for eveyone to agree with them...others just say what they feel. It's made out to be a bad thing if it doesn't go with the majority of the forum. Why?

She wants the response that she gets, was my point!

As an afterthought, and to offer the benefit of the doubt, maybe (hopefully), Hevva doesn't intend to come across as controversial or dismissive, and if this it the case then it's a simple matter of how her posts are construed I suppose?

I'm not looking for aggro, (dont faint ) I just see the same thing happening over and over again. We're all adults, as is Hevva, I'm not demanding she posts in a certain way, but if she likes using this place (which she seems to), but is constantly met with a wall of defence and it all turns hostile, then maybe if she adapted her opening posts it may help for a more harmonious debate? It seems that the majority have the same complaint where her posts are concerned. *shrugs again*

I'm flagging, need tea! x

I have to agree with that. We've all tried, for years. I've seen the nicest and kindest FMs crumble under her massive ignorance. I also agree with veggie, there is a lefty tendency on this forum and so the responses will look as a cluster of opinion against her, whereas it is just that, anybody's opinion. Anyway, she's got her result tonight again. FMs discussing her, long after she's gone yo bed, not doubt rubbing her hands about another good day's work. I wont speak to her again. She's too destructive.

I agree she's not the best at opening posts.....BUT...her opinions aren't that far off my own. Give her a break.

Oh come on,PP is good for some "debate" well it beats ..what are you having for dinner.etc.She knows this,however   I do like the outrage she generates..

Maybe Children in Need night wasn't the best time to advocate the "We've never had it so good" line!

She's the easy target 

I don't mind her..she either very niave or very clever,,both will do.

She is an attention seeker and achieved that tonight ..

I could argue that everyone who joins a forum and posts a thread is an attention seeker. For one reason or another we all come on here to talk to anonymous people. So are people who post fluffy threads ok? People who post thread after thread about reality TV ok? I know this is a BB forum but does that mean that we can't talk about anything else? 

It's not the topic. It's who starts it. You've all found someone who bites

Maybe the OP should consider others - the next door neighbour, Ireland, as an example.  Ireland is bankrupt and the IMF and the European Financial people are here in Dublin trying to sort out a solution.

We have a budget coming on December 7th where all Social Welfare payments are being cut, Child Benefits are being cut, Tax is being increased etc. etc.

As most of you know, I am reliant on the Welfare System to stay alive.  They pay me the sum of 196 Euro a week as a disability payment out of which I have to pay everything: Rent, Prescription Charges, Utilities, other bills and also provide and care for a MA dog.

In two weeks time, I could be homeless and will be on a smaller pittance to exist.

It is a huge worry and is causing my particular medical problems to "act up".  I have worked all my life and paid my taxes and insurance.  Because I worked for a Charity, I get nothing in the way of a pension from them - just the State pension in two years time.

I lived through the last recession and saw what happened to people in the position I now find myself in.  The worry and stress in unbearable which then, in turn, affects my illness.

Unfortunately, I no longer have either parent living - so I don't have any option there.  All I can hope for is enough money to buy a tent - and a sympethetic land owner who will allow me to pitch it on his/her land.

Not a pleasant prospect with Winter arriving.

I tried. And tried to forget about her behaviour on C4 and tried to forget about her (what I found) to be ignorant opinions and tried to approach whatever she was moaning about with an impersonal, objective point of view. I tried to treat her as someone I had never known and contribute to her threads in the same manner. But anything that doesn't agree with her gets retaliated with aggression and claims of bullying. So I did try, loads of people have tried. She has never tried, and never will.

Why should people be expected to tolerate her behaviour and and give her a break when attempts at adult conversation get thrown back in people's faces?

Some people don't find offence in what she posts, but I do, and that's only cos of the response I get if I have disagreed with her or attempted to offer a solution to a problem she has. Tis the way the world turns and all that.

I'm doing what Cologne is doing. As much as I want to reply to anything she writes I'm going to try to restrain in future, cos this is causing disharmony and I've seen too damn much of that over the years over unsubstantiated accusations and pointless arguments that never needed to happen

Slightly dramatic? 

I'm not saying your situation isn't serious but do you REALLY think you'll end up in a tent?