I think you're right Baz - a lot of voters do feel disillusioned and disaffected at the way things are in this country. A lot have suffered with having benefits cut, bedroom tax and wage freezes etc. These are hard times I do however think it's disingenuous to blame all the problems on EU membership and immigration ...........we should be looking elsewhere for the answers not using the very low tactic of turning the less fortunate members of society into scapegoats and having them turn on each other. It's very clearly a case of shifting blame whilst those who are at the root of the problem sip champagne and dodge taxes.

Things do need addressing - EU membership does need a full and honest debate in this country and there probably are things that need adjusting but to blame immigrants and EU policy for the failure of our economy and current problems is just a low blow and an easy cop out for the real culprits.

I'm actually sat chuckling to myself here. We are all quite politically diverse on here and some more passionate than others. Most of us are pretty entrenched in our beliefs and yet we go on tapping away at our keyboards getting our opinions out there (me especially)

I don't suppose for one minute that any of us will persuade another poster to change or alter their views ...............we keep trying though don't we?

Try as I might I can't keep my nose out and hammer out the same old stuff. Just want to say - I do respect and understand that others have differing opinions and I reiterate what I said before ^^^ - I mean no harm or disrespect.

But I'm not sure people are just blaming it on those two things Soozy.....but they do factor in ....and while there seems no *barrier * to talking about benefit cuts , wage freezes etc. it appears that talking about the effect of immigration on the economy  , or the powers that the ever growing European Union assert,  is frowned on . Both are really difficult issues , and I certainly don't know the answers ....or even the right questions ......but I do fear that if the main parties don't grasp the nettle , we could be in for trouble  

Well UKIP seem to. It's them that have had a big swell of support .......if people aren't believing that immigration and EU membership are responsible what the hell are they voting UKIP for? What else do they stand for?

Ditto and I agree   I'm  thinking it's good practice for BB though :  

Baz you know I clear off to DS for the duration. I'm far too opinionated for GaGa and usually a million miles out of step too

Awww ....don't go Soozy ..... I understand where you are coming from , but at least wait and see whether you are out of step ....like I will  

Baz I have had it made abundantly clear that I'm not welcome ...........whether I'm in step or not I just wouldn't want to partake Some people are a bit devious with nasty PM's you know

Baz I have had it made abundantly clear that I'm not welcome ...........whether I'm in step or not I just wouldn't want to partake Some people are a bit devious with nasty PM's you know

Baz .................I just have far to good a memory and although I really am an easy going person - once I'm pushed too far I'm very unforgiving it's a dreadful trait but it's how I am. 

Aw Soozy.. that stinks - i wish you'd stay.  I like a good argument 

Well the only people that can send PM's now are Mods or VIP's unless they have a thread from before you had to pay to send them so I wouldn't worry about it Soozy.. ..

Must admit I am very unforgiving too... I form an opinion and tend to stick with it, and some of mine go way back the the old C4 days

 Me too 

It's actually a good job that everyone isn't like that.

Anyway ....................I've taken the thread OT and it looks like I'm mini flouncing ..............heaven forbid.

Lets get back on topic - and let's be careful out there

I think it's because they aren't seeing the other parties addressing their concerns . For example , I think people may be thinking ...why can't we have an immediate referendum on the EU .....and TBH I think it should have happened ages ago .....that way we will see whether people want it or not . 

But as for being not welcome ....it's a darn forum ....only Lori has the right to decide whose welcome , and whose not ....

Don't hold your breath Baz, in my opinion none of the 3 main parties have any intention of holding a referendum now or in the future.

Edited to add: I loved Hill Street Blues, I wish we had shows like that now.

They've all got so arrogant now Baz that they don't think they have to listen to us any more.

Its like Question Time in here only better 

Originally Posted by Garage Joe:

"Labour spin off party!!!!!11111!!!"

I can sense certain members of my family spinning!

 

Originally Posted by Mount Olympus *Olly*:

thanks for clarifying Carnelian

 

Must admit UKIP always struck me a more a labour spin off type of party but then I've not investigated them that much as I had no interest in them as a party except to know they are something to be avoided at all costs..  

 

As I type this that Farage person is speaking on Andrew Carr..

GJ . But that is actually quite an interesting point Olly made...and it made me ponder.  I'm not sure I would think of UKIP as a Labour spin off ,  but I wonder what the party breakdown was of those that voted UKIP ? When I was watching the results come in it certainly appeared as if they made equal gains in Tory , Liberal and hardcore Labour areas. And while I can't say I've given it much thought before ( and I stand to be corrected ), weren't the main BNP gains in previous elections in effectively * Labour heartlands* * waits for GJ's paint brush to hit the  opposite wall *  

Yeah spin off was probably the wrong word. .I meant they strike me more as Labour types than Tory types

Did anyone see Mr Farage on the Andrew Marr show this morning ?

Baz and Squiggle.  We will probably never agree politically but on the subject of Hill Street Blues we are as one

Mick Belker was one of my favourite characters (the chap who used to growl at people)

Did try to attach a picture of him but couldn't do it. 

Baz and Squiggle.  We will probably never agree politically but on the subject of Hill Street Blues we are as one

Mick Belker was one of my favourite characters (the chap who used to growl at people)

Did try to attach a picture of him but couldn't do it. 

Was he the scruffy, undercover guy ? 

I think this was the one

Baz I taped Andrew Marr this morning as I had to pick someone up and take them to church.  I have just watched the Paddy Ashdown interview.  I don't know whether you saw it or can catch it on iPlayer but it is a master class in pompous arrogance.  All about what he wants, says everything about why they are a dying party

Originally Posted by Baz:

Originally Posted by Garage Joe:

"Labour spin off party!!!!!11111!!!"

I can sense certain members of my family spinning!

 

Originally Posted by Mount Olympus *Olly*:

thanks for clarifying Carnelian

 

Must admit UKIP always struck me a more a labour spin off type of party but then I've not investigated them that much as I had no interest in them as a party except to know they are something to be avoided at all costs..  

 

As I type this that Farage person is speaking on Andrew Carr..

GJ . But that is actually quite an interesting point Olly made...and it made me ponder.  I'm not sure I would think of UKIP as a Labour spin off ,  but I wonder what the party breakdown was of those that voted UKIP ? When I was watching the results come in it certainly appeared as if they made equal gains in Tory , Liberal and hardcore Labour areas. And while I can't say I've given it much thought before ( and I stand to be corrected ), weren't the main BNP gains in previous elections in effectively * Labour heartlands* * waits for GJ's paint brush to hit the  opposite wall *  

Yeah spin off was probably the wrong word. .I meant they strike me more as Labour types than Tory types

They do tend to take more votes from the Tories because they appeal to Tory values more.  Many, many Tory voters would like the idea of a Tory/Ukip pact.  Much more so than the present coalition arrangement. 

A Labour/Ukip pact is a non-starter because Ukip hold fundamentally Tory values on most social and economic issues.  Farage would find lots of natural allies in the Tory party but virtually none in the Labour Party.

From my point of view, Ukip's position on immigration and Europe are not the things with which I have major problems.  Immigration should be cut and I am not wholly convinced that the EU is good for the country.  I'd vote to stay in the EU but only just.  I don't like the way they talk up and exploit racial tension and we should offer asylum when the need is justified.  Mostly it's the economic and social policies.