Hmmm, dunno enough about it really. But I know some folk who have been up on a section 18 charge who for years seemed totally sane, and all of a sudden cos they got caught they developed a mental health problem. On the flip side there could be loads out there who have not been diagnosed, although I do find that weird cos surely someone would have noticed (employers, job centre etc)?

I think it would also depend what has led to the act of violence and if it was pre-meditated. I dont think smashing Leona Lewis round the chops just cos you think she's a dullard constitutes a mental health excuse really.

tbh, i agree with you...it shouldn't be an excuse. a REASON yes but not an excuse. let face it you cant be completely of sound mind to do that sort of thing....so should we let everyone off?

well i think it is an excuse sort of. they cant help it? end of ? so how can it NOT be an excuse???

just a point of view

Mental health problems can obviously result in violence. You`ve just stated that fact in your links. My son was a gentle person until he was involved in a car crash which left him with brain injuries. He`s still a gentle person but can be volatile at times. He has been known to attack furniture to vet his frustration when he realises what he was and is not now. He`s sane, probably more sane than those undiagnosed. He`s never attacked anyone but others do through ill minds. They`re ILL do you get it?
It could be you, it could be yours..
Your PMT rant has really pissed me off. Have you ever suffered from it? Do you know how serious it can be? Women have killed their children. Do you think they were using it as an excuse?  It`s a SERIOUS disablilty.
You should read and research more or even better.. try living with it before you judge OP. You haven`t got a clue what you`re talking about until you do.

An issue with it is imo...they can be sedated (for want of a better word)..but are not compulsed to take their medication...

It is probably a factor, which is why it is reported. I don't know enough about it to judge, but motiveless attacks must usually be due to mental health issues, personality disorders, or just being dragged up in thuggish households, I would think.

Maybe Silvio will use it as his defence, if he ever finally gets to court.

I AM A MENTAL EXPERT

He aint lying either...

 Thank you! <bows>

This website explains PMT and the symptoms.  As Scotty so rightly says, it can be a serious illness.

http://hcd2.bupa.co.uk/fact_sh...nstrual_tension.html

Sorry to hear about your son Scotty, that's awful for the whole family I would imagine.

All I'm going to say is this 

Frosty .......You need to take a step back sometimes, and not come forward with opinions like you're god almighty.  I hate arguments, and conflict, but you really need to censor some of your posts, and have a good old debate with yourself before you sally forth with some of your views.

Just my personal train of thought on this.

There's no denying PMT can be a bitch to deal with, but as far as I know, it's not something that just comes on suddenly after years of no symptoms. (I could be wrong). I think it's a woman's responsibility not only to herself, but to her partner and family to get help if she feels and recognises her PMT is out of control, especially to the point where she could harm others. That doesn't only apply to PMT either, depression can cause emotions and feelings you would never have thought existed, again, I think it's imperative you get help for it. Not an easy step to take though.

frosty, the fact you say no-one you know has had mental health issues as a result of this sort of rage whilst having endured the effects of it yourself leads me to believe you don't know what is going on then. It's not all about a simple boundary that no-one goes over until they play that 'card'... it's about so many shades of grey that are so difficult to understand. It's an illness. Please try and learn about how it can be that.

well

my son as many peeps know has aspergers (and poss ADHD) and has quite a few 'violent' outbursts. whilst he has 'reasons' for them that dos not excuse him from them. if i let him off completely each and every time....he'd NEVER learn that is not right to hit. for him hitting someone is easier to express himself than  telling someone what is wrong. he needs to learn (extra hard) how to communicate his emotions better, rather than taking the easy option.

The issue is culpability. Can we blame and therefore punish someone if they are not responsible for their actions?  A civilised country doesn't, I'd say.  However, if someone is not responsible for their actions then they really shouldn't be walking around if they're inclined to violence or stuff that's socially destructive.

Most can be diagnosed at some level so I think trying it for an excuse is likely to fail.  Losing control when you're angry is different, I think, than having persistent mental health issues which present as violent behaviour.  And there are, obviously, degrees of stuff.

This could develop into a whole free will versus determinism debate.  Interesting.

Obviously an array of differing opinions, but the general consensus seems to be agreeing with my points, although a couple seem to think that I should have my posts censored and that because *MY* opinions and views don't coincide with theirs, that I should have a debate with MYSELF before posting, and one knowledgable all-knowing oracle by the name of 'scotty' even announced that I have no idea what the hell I am on about! 


I simply put my views and opinions and asked people theirs. If you don't 'get' that, then you shouldn't post on peoples' debate threads!  Put your views and disagree with mine by all means, but personal attacks are unnecessary and unncaccaptable, and lead to threads being booted into the troll tank, which is where I fully expect to see this later today!  I stopped posting here for a while earlier this year, and now I know why!  Posts like this really piss me off and put me off coming here!  No wonder people have left this place in their droves!


It's no good attacking me Scotty, just because YOU don't agree with what I said, and basically telling me I am talking crap. Excuse me, but these are my OPINIONS. And, yes I HAVE suffered PMT, and HAVE lived with depression, in many different ways. And as some have stated on here, (basically AGREEING with me,) I am fed up with people using it as an excuse for violence and even murder!  Yes of course a FEW people may be genuinely sick in the head and mentally ill, but it's funny how some people who have never mentioned it before to anyone that they have problems, and have never been diagnosed with 'mental health issues,' they suddenly have them, when they think they may be going to prison.  And I am not the only one to think this, judging by the posts on here!


I found your post extremely rude and ignorant and condescending SCOTTY.  Taking at me as if I know sod-all!  And saying 'I really pissed you off' with my OPINION.  I mean, how the hell would YOU feel if someone in YOUR family ever gets attacked or killed by someone Scotty, and pulls the mental health card out of their backside, and got off and were 'excused' from their crime?  Don't talk to me in that patronising tone again as if I know sod all about anything when YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ME!.


Your post really pissed ME off! So now we're even aren't we?!  I shall be posting around you from now on and shan't be responding to anything you post, as you're obviously spoiling for a fight.  You're not going to get one from me.  I am off to work, which is just as well, because I am really pissed off now!

They do that now and again, try and ignore the trolls

One hoped that it was someone who knew what they were doing. Then they had to play the mental health card. This excuse for a politician has enemies everywhere and one suspects the same would have happened if for example that 'itler one had ever campaigned in Hamburg or the Red Ruhr before the war. One hates violence but sometimes it seems justified. Bog forgive me.

Lots of PMT in here

Frosty, I find your above post about Scotty offensive and I disagree when you say "the general consensus seems to be agreeing with my points".  As far as I can see people are pretty split on the matter.

Your nasty and frankly weird post about Scotty is offensive.  Others have disagreed with you and you've said NOTHING about it.

Seems to me you're a pack runner and you're bringing stuff in to this thread that has NOTHING to do with the original subject at all.

Your post has made you look like a very angry and frankly nasty person and I hope this thread is locked and deleted.

You incidentally have REALLY pissed me off.

OMGZ you went and mentioned Frank!

And why there's probably no god.

This thread is better than watching 2012...

*grabs popcorn*

So is drainging the radiators.

I watched that yesterday. It went on for bleeding ages. If was only John Cusack that kept me going *swooooooooon*

ohh im liking this thread..you pissed me off being pissed off about her being pissed off could be a belter, and ive got to go to tesco

Teddy

I'm pissed off that General Consensus has been misrepresented!

hmmm I see the point you're trying to make Frosty.  And I do agree to some extent....didn't Ian Huntley try to claim mental health problems too?  I do think when people are faced with a charge they do try and grasp at straws to literally get themselves a 'get out of jail' card. 

There was a guy who killed a woman and her mother in Ireland a few years ago.  I can't remember whether they were in a relationship or not but he stalked her for a bit and ended up killing the two of them in a car park. 

There was uproar about it...he claimed he had mental health issues...was interviewed by psychiatrists and was found guilty by reason of insanity and was sent to the Central Mental Hospital.  This caused huge outrage because it was believed that there was nothing wrong with him beforehand that he just played the game well to get out of prison.

Sometimes the victim's family just want to see justice done and if some one isn't sent to prison it's not deemed that justice has been done. 

On the other hand if someone genuinely has a mental health issue and isn't fully capable of understanding what they're doing...then that's why there are protections there for them.

I'm pissed off that I've forgotten what the consensus was

Whats a consensus?

Without being in the shoes (or the mind) of the person carrying out the attack, I can't judge them - just hope I never find myself in a similar state.

I'm pissed off that people are unfairly attacked on here for an opinion and others are not.

I'm pissed off that Scotty was singled out when others made far more challenging comments!

I'm sure Scotty can stick up for herself, today though, I have PMT   I would say the same to frosty if it were you, me or anyone else that she'd made the post about.

I'm not up for a slanging match either, just sick of reading unfair comments on here.

I'm pissed off it's not warming up quick enough in here! <shivers>

Then firstly, Why didn't you let Scotty do just that, if SHE is offended? And secondly, An opinion is just that, hardly "unfair" just because you disagree

Then ya should put some bloody clothes on Princey..I seen ya half nekkid over the road!...  & green really is not your colour!

*Steps round Lacey*