Who knows? I'm quite interested in this sort of material. My late Dad had zero tolerance for 'em and used to tell stories of how the blackshirts visited our town. They had the same sort of xenophobic arguments, but of course then it was a Jewish conspiracy rather than a euro conspiracy. Just like the SNP it's all based on poor or lazy political analysis.

Well it's certainly got a bit lively on here, more new members in the last day than in the last year Just back from a fabulous engagement party, the 'groom' is of gypsy heritage, but pretty wealthy.......is that okay or should I be telling him and his family to go back to wherever they came from 3 generations ago?

Can we have gypsy tart for afters?

That's not a very nice way to speak about Clementina.

   I hope you checked all the contents of your handbag are still there!   I think we all know by now how they get wealthy...     

Oooooooooooooh what a kerfuffle.

 

Has this all stemmed from the one programme (which I've got recorded) or were there several programmes? What do I have to do watch so that I can stick my oar in or add my two pennorth.

  

 

I think I need to watch before daring to admit to my gypsy heriage four or five generations ago

 

 

File under the usual tag of 'incitement to racial hatred', which is exactly what it is.  No doubt billed as: A warts and all examination of gypsy lifestyles in modern Britain.  That should be, A warts only propaganda piece designed to raise the hackless of 'hard working families doing the right thing'.

 

We keep hearing of the liberal elite's so-called PC jackboot, but I don't recall, until a few years ago, programs with minority races and groups in their title nor did I recall 'benefits' being used in program titles.

 

Over the last five years, and accelerated under the Tories, all of a sudden it's "this race this, that race that", "benefits this, benefits that...".

 

Hardly a week goes by without a program with 'benefits' in its title.  The TV companies are now propagandists for right wing interests.  Should it be surprising that the same person who owns the Daily Express, owns Channel 5?

 

 

 

 

 

^^^^ that's exactly my take on it too...the reason I don't and won't watch them 

Well said.......I despise these types of programmes that promote stereo typical folk! hence I never watch them.

Was disturbed to hear on radio 4 this morn that if we were to go to the ballot box today, that UKIP would gather at least 20% of the vote..
The 'regular' parties need to pull their bliddy socks up & stop taking their position for granted ...imho!

 

 

apparently this is a surge from Tory voters over the Maria Miller expenses carry on, which I find strange considering Mr Farage's expense claims record 

I have more pressing things to worry about... like 18th September... and if ba' heid Salmond keeps popping up on my tellybox I'll be needing a new one by then.   Better get one while I can still afford one....

An independant Scotland doesn't mean an SNP Scotland, there'll be a mix of parties in Scotland just as there are in the UK - the only difference will be that they'll not be run by Westminster. Also, if the vote should go in the YES direction, nothing will change overnight - any changes are likely to be a leisurely transition.

Think it might be a bit late. The most recent predictions for the general election are a coalition government - UKIP/Tory. UKIP/Labour.

 

Scary.

 

But would either the Tories or Labour be prepared to hook-up with UKIP? They might try for a minority government, or go to the Queen and declare an unworkable situation/Hung Parliament - and so ask for a Dissolution of Parliament and have a new election called.

Not a chance that labour would get into bed with Farage!!

That's Farage trying to have the UK voting population believe that UKIP are that popular that they could be part of a coalition govt with Labour not the Tories .I say not the Tories because  Farage has stated he could never work with Cameron, therefore distancing himself from the Tories and having the public then think a coalition with Labour would be an option .

Exactly. If the vote is yes, the transition and negotiating period between the the Scottish Government and the UK Government will be over a period of 18 months. Independence day, if it happens, will be 26th March 2016.  Weeks after that (can`t remember the date right now) there will a general election. The people of Scotland, for the first time in over 30 years, will have the Government they voted for.  

I'm aware of that fluffs.     I still don't want it.

 

As for leisurely - as far as i understand it in 18 months or whenever it is we split - we're out of Europe until the day if/when they let us back in.

Are you sure? Who says so?

Appologies if I've missed it. I tend to switch off when all the scaremongers start to spout off!

 

A split date may well have been agreed upon, but that still doesn't mean everything will change overnight

Ermmm... how can we not be?   We have re-apply as an independent country (and you can't 'pre-negotiate')  That's not scaremongering, them's just the rules.

EU membership will, I believe.   .... and whatever the timing, things will change - imo not for the better.

Don`t underestimate what the Tories or the now leaning to the right Labour party will do in their need to be in power. If UKIP get the votes, they`ll negotiate.

 

What are we negotiating exactly ?Fiscal Policy/Welfare system/Defence/Crown.

Are telling me that we are being asked to vote YES on 18TH Sept then around 18 months later we will be told what voting YES really means for us!!

A Yes vote will put us out of Europe immediately..fact.

 

There are two takes on the European situation - one side says if you leave the UK you also automatically leave Europe and will have to apply to join - the other side says Scotland is already in Europe, so there's no need to join again.

I'm not aware of anyone clarifying that situation (again I might just not be paying enough attention) and if it is 'YES' and Scotland is out of Europe - is it a good or bad thing?

There is not two sides. We are out of Europe if/when we return a yes vote.The UK is part of Europe and since we would at that time be separated from the UK we are out. We would have to reapply on out own.

 

I think the letter of the law says the UK is a member.  Scotland will be a different matter.  We will need to negotiate to become a member in our own right.     

 

I think being out will be bad - from a purely personal point of view, I think it'll have a negative impact on the company I work for if we suddenly have 'export' our goods to our major customers who can simply go 'local' to buy them.    I fear many companies may choose to make their bases outside Scotland in that case.

Labour will never be in bed with UKIP it's also not part of the independence debate..

Stick to the argument regarding a YES vote in the Sept 18th elcetions and not try and use UKIP or any other party to scare the people of Scotland into a YES vote.

I see it the other way - all I seem to see is the 'NO' side trying to scare Sotland into a NO vote.

 

Anyway....the question is not really about US and whether we might have to pay a few more pound tax etc, a year (and who says it won't be less? ) it's about Scotland's future, about our children's future and their children's future and the future of generations to come!

 

Do we really want to tie them to an increasingly LONDON oriented Government who care less and less about their own population?

What makes you think that erin?

I ask that from genuine interest - not from a desire to argue the point.

(I'm protestant and hubby's catholic.)

Please tell me what the alternative is then. What exactly does voting YES to independence mean to the Scottish people.

What are we being asked to vote for?

Alex Salmond can't tell us.

The independence details are in the White Paper. 602 pages. I`ve read it.  If the vote is yes, the main negotations will be the Currency Union and entry into the EU. The scaremongering of the CU and EU have blown out of the water by experts far and wide. Research it. Both will happen...fact.  Scotland is the 14th richest country in the western world. The UK is the 18th. Westminster and the elite rich boys in power only want to hold on to us for the revenues. They don`t give damn about Scotland (or the rest of the UK apart from London and the SE) or it`s people. Bedroom tax, Welfare cuts, NHS privitisation and more is heading our way if the vote is no. Osborne has promised his austerity plan will continue and Miliband if he gets in, promises to do the same. He`s a Thatcher fan..fact.  We don`t have control over any this but we will if we vote yes. It`s up to you and everyone as to which way you vote but I don`t want to be ruled by London and the ermin clad pigs in the trough elite who don`t care about us. I don`t know what`s been posted while I was typing this..took me ages. I`ll try to have a look back later, my tea`s oot.   

But NEITHER side can give exacct and minutely itemised details of how things will be. It's the same sort of uncertainty as when we go to the polls eo elect a new UK government!

That's the problem Kaffs,  nothing has been negotiated, when asked Salmond says' membership of the EU will have to be negotiated, the currency will have to be negotiated' - but negotiations can come out negative as well as positive.

 

If it's a yes vote I can see Scotland getting the pound if they also agree to keep  the nuclear deterrent  in Scotland, but I don't think Salmond has that sort of card to play with the EU.

Exactly JB.... and the Yes voters can claim we'll stay in the EU 'fact' all they like.   The only 'fact' is that nothing is written in stone and we won't know it's a 'fact' until it happens... at which point it's too late if all goes tits up.

 

Alex Salmond wants a currency union which is very unlikely, do you honestly think the rest of the UK are going to agree a currency union,do they want to be on the hook for our debt? .Don't you think we should know when we go to the polls what the fiscal policy will be .

Dennis Canavan who is part of the YES campaign wants Scotland to have it's own currency!!

And Salmond has also hinted at a plan B.

 

Clear as mud then . 

Where in the white paper does it tell us about the fundamental issues that concern the Scottish people?

How secure is our pensions and benefits?

How much will our taxes increase?

What are the public spending and borrowing plans? 

We need answers and the white paper gives us ...none.

Exact and minute details ...no I am asking the basic details from the YES campaign.

When we go to the polls to vote for our UK government we know what our currency is ,we know that we are part of Europe,  that doesn't change in a general election, there is no uncertainty about that.

Can you not put on your Sunday best(Avatar) and use your Sunday name now(Velvet)

 

Good