I think it's the principle.

Part of her contracted hours for Friday is being moved to the Thursday, with no extra remuneration, no time off in lieu and no choice.

Anyone who is in work, how would you feel if your employer decided that the hours you would have worked on the next Bank Holiday Monday, would be divided up into half hours and added on to your next 'how ever many' working days?

The principle is just the same.

I'd do it too, but I am a pushover

I'm assuming that duchess is working for a private company who have the school meals contract

I absolutely agree Bliz, duchess shouldn't be expected to do this. I was just meaning that, as it seems she is getting really chewed up about this, that maybe, for her own wellbeing, it's not worth it for what will amount to half an hour once a year?

That wasn't aimed at you, Supes.

I typed it before I saw your post.

Yes, it's not worth getting too stressed about, but I'm amazed how many people think that this sort of action by an employer is fair enough. In principle, it's fairly shocking, IMO.

I'm definitely not a pushover, but I would do it without batting an eyelid.

I'm not sure 'consequently' is the right word, tbh.

Maybe 'luckily'?

Hi all wow what a response thanks for taking the time to answer with you opinions!

I work in a school, the school will be closed on good friday so i cant go in even if  i wanted to.  It is a private company it used to be the council then we got took over 'twice' the head is thinking of going 'in house' so it might be better or worse then.

Thanks Garage Joe, Blizzie and Supercalifragilistic, i think you understand me and where i'm coming from.  I can't understand anyone who works longer than they're getting paid for, i know sometimes in some jobs you have to stay untill the job is done and i understand that i wouldn't have a problem with that at all unless it was very unreasonable (then you should have more hours in which to do that job) for instance we couldn't do all our work in 1.30 but 2.30 is plenty, the work is always done and done properly!

From now on i will not be going 4-5mins early i'll wait until time is up. The cook will not get me on that again, as someone said there is not good feeling in work since this cook came, i think she takes it all to on herself if you know what i mean, but i'll do my time i'll go in on time at 11 we have 15mins for dinner (unpaid) i'll make sure i have that 15mins sometimes we only have 5! but no more and i'll go at 1.45 on the dot no matter what time we finish i'll wait it out!

sounds petty i know but i think the cook is petty and completly unreasonable and she needs to get herself a life other than work!

Right i'm going to get on and have a great weekend (its my 29th anniversary tomorrow) so we're going to celebrate and forget all about her!

Thanks again for your replies

I'm interested in this sort of thing because I witnessed such a change in certain work areas. One of the buildings I used to work in had a full time cleaner.  Bless her! RIP  She was part of the company, pension fund, excellent paternal cradle to grave conditions, and earned a good wage which was part of a structured salary plan. Over the years the company went through a system of outsourcing, so we ended with a system of private entrepeneurs, tendering yearly, driving the price down and employing unhappy contractual workers who seemed to be the same people every year. "I've only been given two hours to clean this storey!" That was their catchphrase. We might as well have done it ourselves.

sounds like our place now joe, when one of the others is off we don't get any help and have to get on and do it one man down (ps i've been lucky enough  to have been off sick last time was about 4yrs ago when i had an operation)

ello Duchess...

I think its one of those things that niggle & annoy...  and can feel unfair.  But I would do it.  At least its only a one off half hour you are having to poke up with.. and not an ongoing work thing happening every week or something.

Sometimes its just not worth the aggro...

I'd grit your teeth, put on your smile & do it.  

If however, this is the latest issue in a long line of niggles, then perhaps its time to look for another job.

Life is too short to feel like this...

all the best xx

thanks i will be doing it ive no choice in the matter, i'll not be leaving it suits me to work here its only a walk away no bus fares and it fits in with me. its just the cook she's too much of a jobsworth.  she keeps threatening to leave so she might just do it one day heres hoping.  thanks for your reply

ps ive been here a long time (15yrs)  i'm not going cos i think it'll please her!

i'm a bit stubborn can you guess?

fingers crossed duchess (about the cook)

xx

Yes! I agree with those latter points.

yes i know i'm stubborn but i never used to be this bad ha ha it must be my age!

Duchess every dog has it's day and you will have yours.....Do the extra 30mins but as far as anything else goes from now on work to rule....Who knows she may just shot herself in the foot.

Maybe she doesn`t have the same incentive as you. Her job is not a career, as such.  Maybe you`re not on minimum wage like duchess, or at least a low hourly rate that I would imagine she earns in her type of job. She works 13 hours per week and is being asked to work 1/2 an hour for nothing. I liked her analogy. Would anyone in a full time job be prepared to accept the same unpaid hours...the equivalent being 4 hours?

I work far more than 4 hours each week that I don't get paid for, and so do many people I know.

The way I see it Duchess is that working class folk of my grandfather's generation fought too bloody hard for worker's rights, pay and conditions etc. for those of our generation to throw that all away. And, like I said , there is a hell of a difference between volunteering to do something extra and being 'made' to do so -  imo most folk would rally against that and lose the goodwill essential for good employer/employee relations.

Would you do it if you were on a minimum wage?

Me too Growly, much, much more, but if someone told me that I had to do that, rather than I was doing it on a voluntary basis, I'd feel v differently and would probably end up 'working to rule' like Duchess is now planning to do.
I also know that if for e.g. I need to go in late or leave off early for personal circumstances or have a day off at short notice that this will be accommodated and I do the same for my staff : in short good employer/ employee relations, which make for a happier and more productive working environment

Yes.  If I had work that needed to be done, I would do it regardless of how much I was being paid.  I've always had the same work ethic since I was 16, and have never left work unfinished because it was time for me to go home or because I wasn't being paid for every last hour.  If I have work that needs to be finished, I will do it, and the fact that I might not be paid for a few extra hours wouldn't cross my mind.   I have never been, and never will be, a  jobsworth.

You oviously never worked in Marton House then?

What if it was totally unnecessary work and you were told that you had to do it, unpaid?

You know Scotty, I do think that that makes a difference. I'm not sure why I should think that 'cos it's not logical, but I do think that those on 'professional salaries' somehow are different to those who get paid an 'hourly rate' especially if that's low pay/the minimum wage.

Yes, I would do it.    And having said that, I'm off to start work on writing a set of minutes that I know will take me at least 6 hours, and for which I've only got another three hours' pay left in my formula.  I could probably do a very rushed job in 3 hours, but if I spend the extra time, I can do a really thorough job, which I will be pleased with.

Obviously not!  Actually, I did go for an informal chat there once when I was moving back to the area and thought that the people who I saw were such asses who didn't know what they were doing that I stayed away! But that's a different story!.....Like Bliz said, sometimes it's luck and I've always been lucky enough to have had very, very reasonable line managers who were flexible and I'm confident that my staff would say the same of me, they often volunteer to do extra hours when we have a 'push on' and they know that if they then need time off at short notice/come in late/ go to their kid's school sports day etc. etc. then I would always say yes

"Jobsworth" isn`t relevant in this situation. Duchess hasn`t left any work unfinished. She`s being told she must work extra time without pay.

as someone said flexibility works both ways the cook has no flexibility, anothergirl had a hospital appointment and had to work her hours up, that has never hapened before we always got time off for hospital appointments and yes it was an important one

Me too Growly, for example I worked a whole day this week when I was on leave doing a FOI request. However, no-one told me that I had to do it, I volunteered to do it to meet the deadline which wouldn't have been possible if I'd left it 'til I returned from leave.
TBH I think that you're totally missing the point here re the situation duchess is in.  
Also, would you expect, for example, someone on the minimum wage to work significant extra hours to 'get the job done well' because the allocated hours for which they were paid were not sufficient to allow for that?

So, what if they told you that you would be repeating the exact same job in five days time, however well you did it this time?

As I said before Mrs Joe did all the extra unpaid work amongst the community before asking for some flexibility. Schoolboy error.

Hey Duchess, you've really started something here!

Blizzie

Yes! It's an exceptional discussion for the sake of 30 minutes. I myself have put in at least 30 unpaid minutes on this thread alone.

Bloody hell, how long was the meeting?

Writing up minutes used to take me days Soops!!  Trying to make sure the right info was in them, it was politically correct, & the correct actions & all that put in.

I HATED typing up minutes...

Like someone said GJ - it's the principle!... And this isn't getting my front door painted, and now the sun has gone in, it's cold and well, think it'll have to wait 'til tomorrow!

I know, i didn't think i'd get many answers tbh!

You can take it in loo.