If Sir Keir's so "forensic" why doesn't he realise he's rubbish!
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He's useless, isn't he?
@Carnelian posted:He's useless, isn't he?
I can't begin to say how much really
.....but I agree with Slim , the pandemic has made it difficult to tell how effective he would be .
Where do you start Carnelian 
I don't agree that the pandemic is holding him back at all, I do think every single thing he's doing is deliberate.
He's suspended more Jewish members than any other leader.
He's removed elected officials from standing if they are socialists, he's parachuted a right wing candidate into Hartlepool. One who has made sexist and racists remarks.
He's silenced CLP's from questioning his motives
Anyone voting for him to be leader should have given their head a wobble, he's a member of the Trilateral Commission, the man isn't and never was a socialist.
He paid 6 figure sums to those that worked within Labour for us to lose the election, knowing the advice had been that they would lose their case...Starmer paid them anyway.
He won't release the Forde Report on the labour leaks, which proved people worked against the leadership and allegedly moved funds.
The whistleblower only released the whatsapp messages because Starmer sat on them and still hasn't done anything about the racism and the abuse that was in those messages,
He's alienated the left, Bame and now this morning the Gay membership.
IMO, he never intended to be Prime minister, his primary goal is to destroy socialism and rid the party of socialist to keep the status quo.
He's being advised by Blair and Mandelson 
I detest him more than Johnson, he's a fraud and not one bit of honesty in him. The sooner the Unions pull the plug won't be a day too soon for me...I hope he gets his ar$e on a plate in Hartlepool 
I could say a lot more I know, but I would be treading a fine line...as a lifelong Labour voter and member I have resigned my membership and stopped my monthly donation, I will never vote for him or his shadow cabinet and I know many, many more like me.
Been thinking long and hard re. my CLP membership. It seems every time the guy opens his mouth he disappoints me
@Dame_Ann_Average posted:Where do you start Carnelian
I don't agree that the pandemic is holding him back at all, I do think every single thing he's doing is deliberate.
He's suspended more Jewish members than any other leader.
He's removed elected officials from standing if they are socialists, he's parachuted a right wing candidate into Hartlepool. One who has made sexist and racists remarks.
He's silenced CLP's from questioning his motives
Anyone voting for him to be leader should have given their head a wobble, he's a member of the Trilateral Commission, the man isn't and never was a socialist.
He paid 6 figure sums to those that worked within Labour for us to lose the election, knowing the advice had been that they would lose their case...Starmer paid them anyway.
He won't release the Forde Report on the labour leaks, which proved people worked against the leadership and allegedly moved funds.
The whistleblower only released the whatsapp messages because Starmer sat on them and still hasn't done anything about the racism and the abuse that was in those messages,
He's alienated the left, Bame and now this morning the Gay membership.
IMO, he never intended to be Prime minister, his primary goal is to destroy socialism and rid the party of socialist to keep the status quo.
He's being advised by Blair and Mandelson
I detest him more than Johnson, he's a fraud and not one bit of honesty in him. The sooner the Unions pull the plug won't be a day too soon for me...I hope he gets his ar$e on a plate in Hartlepool
Couldn't agree more Dame Ann!
In fact, you've pretty much mentioned everything, and then some, I would mention as to why he is the worst Labour leader the party has ever had.
The Labour-supporting Daily Mirror gave him a rating of 5/5 on antisemitism. They are clueless. I would give him 0/5. Everything you've written is correct. I have left the Labour Party this year over the appalling treatment of Jeremy Corbyn and those on the left, including Jewish members who dare be objective over Israel.
I too hope he gets a hammering in the May elections. I could never vote Tory, as I detest them, but the fact that I have even considered voting Tory just to humiliate Starmer says it all.
He's never going to win an election on a right of centre ticket Carnelian, there isn't enough right or centre right votes to go around. Blair won on the centre ticket because he managed to keep both left and right pacified until Iraq.
You don't alienate your voters, you only have to look at what he has done in Liverpool to see it's either a deliberate act or he'a absolutely off his rocker.
I am quite willing to get behind a socialist leader or even a soft centre one who can unite the party...Stamer isn't that man, he's been a divisive force since day one and this is the guy who campaigned on a unity ticket, the ten pledges and a socialist manifesto...all have been chucked out the window.
Unless he either steps down or there is a leadership challenge, I don't think things are going to change much. People seem to forget, the Labour Party is a left wing Socialist Party, it's not meant to be Centre or right wing. Nowadays, anyone slightly left of Churchill is hard left, that's what people seem to think. I have never been so insulted over the last five years for simply being a socialist, not a commie, a trot, a thug, a dog, or hard left....Simply repeat the lies often enough and people believe them, sad really!
I find him dead between the eyes. And I dunno what he's up to. He's deffo winning no general election so what is the point?
May's gonna be interesting north and south.
Jeremy Corbyn was hounded out in a disgraceful manner, by his party & by the media and although I didn't like that he was going to make a stand against the EU exit majority vote, which was done democratically, I would still have voted for him.
I had hopes for Starmer, coming from such a high position in the CPS but don't suppose I follow politics closely enough to know the ins & outs of his behaviour within the Labour camp, we certainly don't hear about such things on the news atm.
I have never believed in party politics, it should be the best person for the job in every ministerial department irrespective imho.
Starmer did Assange. That's all you need to know.
@Baz posted:Well Iâm centrist , and proud of it . IMHO itâs the extremes wings of politics ....whether right , or left .....that cause the most problems ....so give me middle of the road any day .
Fair enough but I find the way centrism is defined as Orwellian. You can wage an illegal war and be a 'centrist' but if you want to build the homes the country desperately needs you're apparently, 'the hard left'!
@Carnelian posted:Fair enough but I find the way centrism is defined as Orwellian. You can wage an illegal war and be a 'centrist' but if you want to build the homes the country desperately needs you're apparently, 'the hard left'!
Housing in this country is a scandal...it should be an embarrassment to the likes of Robert Jenrick (minister for housing).
Looks like Sir Wet Wipe is heading for a humiliation that he wholly deserves.
Sir Abstainer blaming Corbyn for the Hartlepool loss before the votes are counted, JC held Hartlepool with an increased majority in 2017 by 16% plus and held on in 2019 even after the collapse of the red wall which was Starmers fault in the first place.
His today's effort it's totally wrong, he's getting two different marches confused...this one the women were made to march against the tax otherwise be sacked, the man is a complete imbecile The Anna Besant march was 17 years later, basic stuff he can't get right The Leader of the Labour Party doesn't even know the dates of how the Labour movement started and the involvement of Anna Besant and the Matchgirls, he shouldn't even a need a researcher for this information!
150 years ago today, women workers at Bryant and May factory marched on Parliament against the Chancellor's proposed tax on matches. Through their collective action, they won. It galvanised the factory workers ahead of battles for pay and working conditions.
I'm waiting to see when he's gone Dame 
He's a caricature. Who's gonna make the move? Probably no-one. He's a Conservative gift.
And I hope you are okay 
You're a fighter 
Hi Velvet
I'm fine thank you, just sitting watching the sh*t show....the one we warned people about. Hope your good Velvet and keeping safe
I should never have called you out. That's a big regret
I know you're okay
@Dame_Ann_Average posted:Sir Abstainer blaming Corbyn for the Hartlepool loss before the votes are counted, JC held Hartlepool with an increased majority in 2017 by 16% plus and held on in 2019 even after the collapse of the red wall which was Starmers fault in the first place.
His today's effort it's totally wrong, he's getting two different marches confused...this one the women were made to march against the tax otherwise be sacked, the man is a complete imbecile
150 years ago today, women workers at Bryant and May factory marched on Parliament against the Chancellor's proposed tax on matches. Through their collective action, they won. It galvanised the factory workers ahead of battles for pay and working conditions.
Thanks Dame Ann, I didn't know that. He probably would have pulled the wool over my eyes except that I tend to double-check everything he says.
It's good to know your history otherwise you fall into the trap of erecting a statue to an antisemite, anti-Catholic, Nazi lover like Lady Nancy Astor and proclaiming her a hero for women. Theresa May and Rachel Reeves.
Rachel Reeves hasn't been punished at all by Labour for glorifying a raving antisemite and Nazi fan. One rule for labour left another for the Blairites.
@slimfern posted:Later today will give us an insight to how folk have taken to him & his version of Labour....
Much of the counting will take place from tomorrow and in some places won't be finished until Monday. BBC isn't starting their election results programmes until tomorrow morning outside any mentioned in their ordinary news programmes. It's because of fewer counters than for typical elections due to the distancing measures, also due to more elections taking place this time due to those which were cancelled last year.
@El Loro posted:Much of the counting will take place from tomorrow and in some places won't be finished until Monday. BBC isn't starting their election results programmes until tomorrow morning outside any mentioned in their ordinary news programmes. It's because of fewer counters than for typical elections due to the distancing measures, also due to more elections taking place this time due to those which were cancelled last year.
Thanks El..
I guess a 24/96 hr delay won't make the result any easier/harder to swallow 
Stamer is a plant, I have said it for the last two years.....he's not a socialist bone in his body, he's just out to destroy socialism and no interest if he leads the country or not. Who would ever have thought a socialist party leader would have refused to sign this... these poor people who have been in jobs for years, some of them most of their lives are sacked at the drop of a hat and made to take minimum wages, what happened to this country where we prefer working people not to make a wage and claim universal credit to top up 
Iâve waited until the polls have closed to say that has refused to sign Uniteâs letter demanding an end to fire & rehire. It says so much. Disgraceful. Show some passion. Talk for workers. Itâs pathetic.
@Dame_Ann_Average posted:Stamer is a plant, I have said it for the last two years.....he's not a socialist bone in his body, he's just out to destroy socialism and no interest if he leads the country or not. Who would ever have thought a socialist party leader would have refused to sign this... these poor people who have been in jobs for years, some of them most of their lives are sacked at the drop of a hat and made to take minimum wages, what happened to this country where we prefer working people not to make a wage and claim universal credit to top up
Iâve waited until the polls have closed to say that has refused to sign Uniteâs letter demanding an end to fire & rehire. It says so much. Disgraceful. Show some passion. Talk for workers. Itâs pathetic.
Doesn't the law protect employees from getting sacked without reason?
Even redundancy is governed by strict rules.
or so I thought 
Has been a few years since I was an employer..
@slimfern posted:Doesn't the law protect employees from getting sacked without reason?
Even redundancy is governed by strict rules.
or so I thought
Has been a few years since I was an employer..
not now slim, British Gas just sacked 500 to work more hours for less pay, I could weep for this country and how some can ignore what is happening. I'm a socialist and care about these things but I'm classed as hard left....fecking brainwashed the country is!
@Dame_Ann_Average posted:not now slim, British Gas just sacked 500 to work more hours for less pay, I could weep for this country and how some can ignore what is happening.
So you have people in Hartlepool saying, "We vote Labour and Labour don't do anything for us. So we're going to vote Tory!". Sorry, which party has been in government for the past 11 years? But then, who can blame them when the senior Labour leadership is so abjectly useless and offers no vision for the country except empty Blair era soundbites.
I'm so glad I didn't vote. A pox on all their houses!
The English working class are their own worst enemy. "Boris is looking out for the working class. He's done a great job with Brexit and Covid". In the past my comment would be, "Jesus, where do they find these people? " but they're the norm not the exception now.
The Parliamentary Labour Party is just unfit for purpose. Its leader is an establishment shill who argues against Tory (yes, Tory) Corporation Tax rises. Presumably to lay the groundwork to jump into bed with the banking industry again like in "the good old days" of Blair! But the corporations are not buying it! No one's buying anything Starmer says except the careerist wastes of space that occupy the senior positions in the Parliamentary Labour Party. Even after this humiliation, the Blairites are trying to pin it on Corbyn.
A sad day for Labour, the country and British politics IMO.
I woke up to Radio 4 with (hard left Marxist as the media has it) ex shadow Labour chancellor to Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell, talking about the defeat, admitting that it was a terrible day for Labour but not calling for Starmer to resign, being civil, co-operative and charitable towards the right of the Labour Party in a way the Blairites never were when Corbyn led the party.
Then up pops twice disgraced career liar, Peter Mandelson, lying through his teeth about voters telling him that "Labour picked the wrong brother and Corbyn". The same Mandelson who has been advising Starmer but it's still all Corbyn's fault! The same Mandelson who was contemptuous of Hartlepool voters and said of working-class voters when Labour went rightwards, "Where will they go?". Well, now he knows!
A character like Mandelson masterminding Starmer's attack on Tory sleaze. What a joke! Labour will be unelectable until it gets rid of the likes of Mandelson and Starmer.
I don't get it. How do you go from a working-class background like Keir Starmer, excel in law and rise to the top of your profession as a human rights lawyer and then be head of the CPS without having a brilliant mind? He then joins Labour with credentials that are a track record of fighting injustice and being very good at it. Yet since he's become Labour leader it's like he's been lobotomised or he has deep state "handlers" who know where the bodies are buried.
@Carnelian posted:I don't get it. How do you go from a working-class background like Keir Starmer, excel in law and rise to the top of your profession as a human rights lawyer and then be head of the CPS without having a brilliant mind? He then joins Labour with credentials that are a track record of fighting injustice and being very good at it. Yet since he's become Labour leader it's like he's been lobotomised or he has deep state "handlers" who know where the bodies are buried.
I think money counts over anything with career politicians Carnelian, I remember him 5 years ago supporting Palestine and condemning Israel, he has done a complete u-turn on this too. He accepted ÂĢ50.000 donation from Trevor Chinn who is a pro-Israel lobbyist, he takes orders from the right wing Board of Deputies. Politics in England especially, stinks! It's a cess pit of corruption and dodgy deals that's why Corbyn had to go, he couldn't be bought.
Strangely, Starmer is going to have a shadow cabinet reshuffle while a channel 4 poll found overwhelming evidence Starmer was the problem in Hartlepool. Welsh Labour did well with a staunch left leader, Preston with it's 100% left wing Council held every seat and to be fair have done a brilliant job in Preston. The only seats gained by Labour were by true socialist, not the fake red Tory ones.
If you look at the polling data for Hartlepool, the Tories didn't gain that many votes, socialists stayed at home because they had no one to vote for. Starmer has spent 14 months chasing Tory votes, expelling socialist councillors by the bucket load, expelling left wing Jews for condemning violence in Palestine, he's alienated the left and Bame voters.
To top it all he's had Mandelson and Blair advising him banging on about 2019 was the worst defeat since the 30's which is a blatant lie. He got more votes in 2019 with 10,292,354 than Blair did in 2005 with 9,566,618, Gordon Brown in 2010 with 8,609,527, in fact David Cameron's win in 2010 was just under 200,000 more than Corbyn's vote share in 2019. He also got more votes than Ed Milliband in 2015 with 9,347,273. If anyone says, hang on he lost more seats he didn't, that was Gordon Brown in 2010 with 91
It's absolutely crazy to think the people want or need another centre right party, although I don't think that is Starmer's main reason to lurch right, I'm sure it's a deliberate act. I'm sick of seeing 'hard left' it's a 70's insult and being used repeatedly by centrist MP's ...Jesus, how easily people are manipulated! Nothing wrong with wanting people to earn a proper wage instead of having to claim benefits to be able to survive, or wanting Hospitals properly funded and be rid of their debts thanks to John Major starting PFI and then Tony Blair running with it like Usain Bolt. Taking back control of public companies, making fire and rehire illegal, making zero hour contracts illegal...I must be hard left then, because these are the things that I would want anyone I was voting for to be calling for.