quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
OOOOOOOO See I Agree there are conspiracies sourounding 911....

The ones I remember off the top of my head are ....

The footage of the man that was ment to be bin ladden admiting to it ... Remmeber the meeting with the unknow group of arab men , Well Ive seen that again and It is not Bin Ladden not in a million years who made that film???

The bin ladden families were flown out of britain or america (i'm sure someone will correct me) at tax payers expence WTF was that all about

Loads of Important people were told not to fly on that day.

I THINK the members goverment knew it was going to happen and let it as members the American government wanted to access Middle eastern oil

Dun Dun Dun

well,, the video of Bin Laden admitting responsibility for the attack has been totally discredited, and is almost certainly a fake, the guy in the video is left handed while Bin Laden is right handed, or vice versa, he also wears ring in the video and apparently thats a nono for a devout moslem.
AND they have used computer face recgnition techniques comparing known genuine video of BL and the result was 99% certain that the guy in the video is NOT BL.
now, this video was conveniently ' found ' in one of BLs caves by US forces AND released by the US government as PROOF of BLs involvement in 11/9 ....yet..... its fake?
and some people say those of us who dont buy the official story are nutters!!
AND 9 year after the event there is not one shred of EVIDENCE linking BL to the 11/9 attacks, my words? nope, check the FBIs own website and their 10 most wanted list, check what BL is wanted for, NO MENTION of 11/9,
he is wanted for various terrorist attacks around the world but significantly NOT 11/9
just after 11/9 the CIA anounced on US tv that Mohammed Atta,s (sp) passport had miraculously survived the plane crashing into the twin towers and landed in the street in NY,
they later denied ever making this claim despite the broadcast being seen by millions of people,
so yeah if it makes things easier for ya, carry on calling conspiracy theorists nutters, and get back to important things like watching BGT and BB,

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
RIGHT as it looks as though ANY chance of a reasonable debate on 11/9 had fecked off...so will I ,
I feel the call of the PS 3 and COD4...time to kill, so its killing time

I have to say The op didn't seem interested either when I made comments. Its all odd TBH

I AM interested in your opinion.

If you were talking on topic and I overlooked your post I'm very sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
OOOOOOOO See I Agree there are conspiracies sourounding 911....

The ones I remember off the top of my head are ....

The footage of the man that was ment to be bin ladden admiting to it ... Remmeber the meeting with the unknow group of arab men , Well Ive seen that again and It is not Bin Ladden not in a million years who made that film???

The bin ladden families were flown out of britain or america (i'm sure someone will correct me) at tax payers expence WTF was that all about

Loads of Important people were told not to fly on that day.

I THINK the members goverment knew it was going to happen and let it as members the American government wanted to access Middle eastern oil

Dun Dun Dun

well,, the video of Bin Laden admitting responsibility for the attack has been totally discredited, and is almost certainly a fake, the guy in the video is left handed while Bin Laden is right handed, or vice versa, he also wears ring in the video and apparently thats a nono for a devout moslem.
AND they have used computer face recgnition techniques comparing known genuine video of BL and the result was 99% certain that the guy in the video is NOT BL.
now, this video was conveniently ' found ' in one of BLs caves by US forces AND released by the US government as PROOF of BLs involvement in 11/9 ....yet..... its fake?
and some people say those of us who dont buy the official story are nutters!!
AND 9 year after the event there is not one shred of EVIDENCE linking BL to the 11/9 attacks, my words? nope, check the FBIs own website and their 10 most wanted list, check what BL is wanted for, NO MENTION of 11/9,
he is wanted for various terrorist attacks around the world but significantly NOT 11/9
just after 11/9 the CIA anounced on US tv that Mohammed Atta,s (sp) passport had miraculously survived the plane crashing into the twin towers and landed in the street in NY,
they later denied ever making this claim despite the broadcast being seen by millions of people,
so yeah if it makes things easier for ya, carry on calling conspiracy theorists nutters, and get back to important things like watching BGT and BB,

Bemusing that you castigate those of us who (through our own ability to reason, rationalise and accept the simplest explanation requiring the fewest assumptions) accept September 11 as a wave of coordinated suicide attacks for being easily led and willing to blindly accept what we’re told, whilst yourself accepting the claims of random folk on the net! You admit you have no idea if Bin Laden is right or left handed (someone on the net told you though so it must be true…), and a quick google would have told you that Muslim men can and indeed do wear rings.

Asking yourself a few simple questions is compelling enough without having to look at the intricacies of structural engineering and ballistics (though I’m sure the guys at loose change have a plethora of experts in these fields available to them…). If the US government merely wanted an excuse to invade Iraq (a country, by the way, which NO ONE blamed or associated with the attacks) why embark on an epically elaborate series of plane crashes? If they were using bombs anyway then why not just plant the frickin’ bomb and set Bin Laden up!?
Consider Richard Nixon, a hundred times smarter than Bush – he couldn’t prevent a handful of intimately involved conspirators from squealing, yet you think Bush has managed to keep 1000’s (which is the number of people who’d be required to pull off an inside job of 9/11 magnitude) of conspirators quiet?

There is one reason alone that something ‘is not quite right’ about 9/11 - you WANT there to be something not quite right.

Perhaps if the good conspiracy theorists of the world had got together and agreed one good theory then I might 'ave believed them. However there is too much conflicting evidence about.
Even some of the hearsay stuff on this thread is blatantly untrue. Like a poor game of Chinese whispers, someone invents a myth and passes it on.

quote:

Originally posted by china:
i always answer your posts in a non-aggressive way-i think

i do, dont i?

Can't argue with that. I'll make you mad yet if it's the last thing I do!

To the "non clique"..

I have largely ignored you, as I feel your posts say more about yourselves than they do about me.

I honestly have no idea how to engage with you as I have no experience dealing with this sort of behaviour online and less in RL to draw from, short of dim memories of schooldays.

If we could be adult about this in some way that'd be cool with me but I'm not sure if that is possible or if it is how to procceed.

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
I love this line, and it about sums it up
"We Americans are the ultimate innocents. We are forever desperate to believe that this time the government is telling us the truth."

That goes for the UK as well.

quote:

oh AND THIS ONE

"The whole point of a democracy is to have leaders responding to the public will, and here this is the complete reverse, the military trying to trick the American people into a war that they want but that nobody else wants."

Did you watch the Eisenhower clip I posted ? You might be familiar with it anyway.

Not sure if you (or anyone here) is a Bob Dylan fan but his song 'masters of war' was influenced by that speech.

The clip again..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

B. Dylan - Masters of War...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muQRIUVd6Aw

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
Perhaps if the good conspiracy theorists of the world had got together and agreed one good theory then I might 'ave believed them. However there is too much conflicting evidence about.
Even some of the hearsay stuff on this thread is blatantly untrue. Like a poor game of Chinese whispers, someone invents a myth and passes it on.

Have you seen the film releaced buy the American Goverment of the man saying he is Bin Ladden admiting the attacks... It is not Bin ladden not in a million years. There are a loads of conspiracy theories I am not a expert I have watched ONE film and a lot of is is statments that are not backed up by anything. but that one FACT bugs me is that film is totaly fake so who made it? Clearly persons unknown conspired to make it.

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
Perhaps if the good conspiracy theorists of the world had got together and agreed one good theory then I might 'ave believed them. However there is too much conflicting evidence about.
Even some of the hearsay stuff on this thread is blatantly untrue. Like a poor game of Chinese whispers, someone invents a myth and passes it on.

That’s it, and the psychology of it is quite interesting - you find that people who believe one conspiracy theory are likely to believe others.
Thinking outside the box is one thing, but belief in the unbelievable (and in stuff which is often very easily debunked) is another - the lines between criminal conspiracy and conspiracy theory seem to be blurred for some.

If Bush and his...errrrm....clique had faked the whole 11/9 scenario then surely they would have ensured that the hijackers would consist of Iraqis or at least be clearly linked to Saddam Hussein. If that had been the case he could have started the war he so desperately desired on the very next day rather than having to wait 2 years before going in on the flimsiest of evidence.

quote:

Originally posted by captain marbles:
If Bush and his...errrrm....clique had faked the whole 11/9 scenario then surely they would have ensured that the hijackers would consist of Iraqis or at least be clearly linked to Saddam Hussein. If that had been the case he could have started the war he so desperately desired on the very next day rather than having to wait 2 years before going in on the flimsiest of evidence.

Afghanistan was first, then Iraq was tied in.

Wonder who'll be next.

What about the Illuminati?

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
What about the Illuminati?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Ogilvy:
To the "non clique"..

I have largely ignored you, as I feel your posts say more about yourselves than they do about me.

I honestly have no idea how to engage with you as I have no experience dealing with this sort of behaviour online and less in RL to draw from, short of dim memories of schooldays.

If we could be adult about this in some way that'd be cool with me but I'm not sure if that is possible or if it is how to procceed.

To Comrade Ogilvie, if you hadn't first off come at me with Butt OUt the other night when I was talking to another FM then perhaps I would not have even noticed you but as it is I found you instantly agressive, so if we are all going to behave in an 'adult' way as you seem concerned that a Big Brother forum is conducted maturely then perhaps you should consider that to instantly jump on someone who just entered a thread may be seen as provoking? Just a suggestion. Or are you saying it's okay for you to do that but not for others?

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Ogilvy:
If we could be adult about this in some way that'd be cool with me but I'm not sure if that is possible or if it is how to procceed.

Cool. So, Kate McCann. Do you accept that it was reasonable for her to invoke her right to silence as an arguido and that she was probably advised by her legal team to do so? Do you accept that it was unfair for you to post that link to her unanswered questions in the context you did thus implying that she had something to hide with regard to those specific questions? Do you accept that when this was pointed out that a person with integrity would have withdrawn it because it was unfair?

And if you had not then subsequently created a flounce thread tht was a transparent excercise inseeking sympathy from your friends who are not in anyway a clique then perhaps myself and presumably the others would not have found it all so ridiculous that when you started this thread it was like impossible to ignore?

And lol NO i don't know Daniel J!!!

How about Blizzie's questions about the mathematics regarding the sniffer dogs? Blizzie asked very nicely and yet was ignored twice. Did you plagarise that text from Digital Spy without even thinking about what you had cut and pasted? Why did you not answer questions about it if you are truly interested in rational debate?

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Ogilvy:

quote:

Originally posted by captain marbles:
If Bush and his...errrrm....clique had faked the whole 11/9 scenario then surely they would have ensured that the hijackers would consist of Iraqis or at least be clearly linked to Saddam Hussein. If that had been the case he could have started the war he so desperately desired on the very next day rather than having to wait 2 years before going in on the flimsiest of evidence.

Afghanistan was first, then Iraq was tied in.

Wonder who'll be next.

I saw somewhere that something like 89% of Americans think that Iraq was responsible for the 11/9 attacks!!!

Daniel J we have SO got to stop meeting like this!!!

What about the Lyndon LaRouche link to do with your calling the royal family 'Nazi trash'? We never even got past the first paragraph for the factual errors. You wouldn't address them despite repeatedly being asked. Yet you reposted the link later in the thread. Are you actually interested in the facts?

You posted a picture of Prince Hot Ginge and you wouldn't entertain any discussion there. Was that a fair thing to do to the Prince? Do you actually believe he is a Nazi sympathiser?

You complain of ill treatment and immature behaviour and yet you indulge in defamatory posts about people who have no means of answering back. When people challenge you on the facts and issues you get very, very upset and try to patronise or abuse the challengers. Is that a mature position?

quote:

Originally posted by JasmineJ:

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
Perhaps if the good conspiracy theorists of the world had got together and agreed one good theory then I might 'ave believed them. However there is too much conflicting evidence about.
Even some of the hearsay stuff on this thread is blatantly untrue. Like a poor game of Chinese whispers, someone invents a myth and passes it on.

That’s it, and the psychology of it is quite interesting - you find that people who believe one conspiracy theory are likely to believe others.
Thinking outside the box is one thing, but belief in the unbelievable (and in stuff which is often very easily debunked) is another - the lines between criminal conspiracy and conspiracy theory seem to be blurred for some.

Wow thats a generalisation (sp)

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
I saw somewhere that something like 89% of Americans think that Iraq was responsible for the 11/9 attacks!!!

But that doesn't mean that the attacks did not happen in the way they were portrayed.

quote:

Originally posted by jonono:

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Ogilvy:
To the "non clique"..

I have largely ignored you, as I feel your posts say more about yourselves than they do about me.

I honestly have no idea how to engage with you as I have no experience dealing with this sort of behaviour online and less in RL to draw from, short of dim memories of schooldays.

If we could be adult about this in some way that'd be cool with me but I'm not sure if that is possible or if it is how to procceed.

To Comrade Ogilvie, if you hadn't first off come at me with Butt OUt the other night when I was talking to another FM then perhaps I would not have even noticed you but as it is I found you instantly agressive, so if we are all going to behave in an 'adult' way as you seem concerned that a Big Brother forum is conducted maturely then perhaps you should consider that to instantly jump on someone who just entered a thread may be seen as provoking? Just a suggestion. Or are you saying it's okay for you to do that but not for others?

I did snap at you Jonono. I was being flamed at by multiple FMs at that point and you posted in agreement with the flaming, perhaps you hadn't read the whole thread, or... I don't know ?? If you had and agreed with me being flamed, back up wasn't necessary I already had plenty of FMs snapping at my ankles.

Either way, I accept I may have been rude in my initial 'meeting' with yourself and apologise for that.

quote:

flamed

Disagreed with.

So, the Lyndon LaRouche link. You thought it portrayed Kurt Hahn quite fairly when pressed. No further explanation though. What do you know about Kurt Hahn other than what was in the link? Was his education programme really along the lines of the Hitler Youth, including the negative connotations?

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Ogilvy:

quote:

Originally posted by jonono:

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Ogilvy:
To the "non clique"..

I have largely ignored you, as I feel your posts say more about yourselves than they do about me.

I honestly have no idea how to engage with you as I have no experience dealing with this sort of behaviour online and less in RL to draw from, short of dim memories of schooldays.

If we could be adult about this in some way that'd be cool with me but I'm not sure if that is possible or if it is how to procceed.

To Comrade Ogilvie, if you hadn't first off come at me with Butt OUt the other night when I was talking to another FM then perhaps I would not have even noticed you but as it is I found you instantly agressive, so if we are all going to behave in an 'adult' way as you seem concerned that a Big Brother forum is conducted maturely then perhaps you should consider that to instantly jump on someone who just entered a thread may be seen as provoking? Just a suggestion. Or are you saying it's okay for you to do that but not for others?

I did snap at you Jonono. I was being flamed at by multiple FMs at that point and you posted in agreement with the flaming, perhaps you hadn't read the whole thread, or... I don't know ?? If you had and agreed with me being flamed, back up wasn't necessary I already had plenty of FMs snapping at my ankles.

Either way, I accept I may have been rude in my initial 'meeting' with yourself and apologise for that.

well thanks for that answer. I didn't read the thread beforehand (i think you think about it all too much?) though after that response I delved deeper in the thread and I still stand by my viewpoint that the constant speculation about the other matter is sad, if that happens to coincide with others it doesn't mean we are a clique, but I do appreciate the apology.

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Ogilvy:

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
What about the Illuminati?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces

Just where does that^^^^ mention the Illuminanti? It could just as well be applied to Scientology, the Round Table or many other groups. Just who are the Illuminanti anyway???

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Ogilvy:

quote:

Originally posted by captain marbles:
If Bush and his...errrrm....clique had faked the whole 11/9 scenario then surely they would have ensured that the hijackers would consist of Iraqis or at least be clearly linked to Saddam Hussein. If that had been the case he could have started the war he so desperately desired on the very next day rather than having to wait 2 years before going in on the flimsiest of evidence.

Afghanistan was first, then Iraq was tied in.

Wonder who'll be next.

That's simply a statement rather than an answer. Why was Afghanistan first? Surely everything that has played out since has shown us that Iraq was Bush's prime target, both in terms of removing Saddam and in gaining control of all that oil. Afghanistan was an irritation that Bush was reluctant to deal with even when it was obvious that Al Quaeda was the prime mover in the 11/9 attacks.

*bong*

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
Jesus...theres 9 pages already!!
well ok IF THIS FORUM wants a SERIOUS debate around the 11/9 attacks I am up for it,
and believe me I have read loads and watched loads of videos about it both by those who see something "sinister" AND by those who believe the "party" line, and have come to my own conclusions based on what I have seen and read,
and in short my conclusion is.....there is a HELL of a lot MORE to it than we have been told and questions NEED answering,

I totally agree. Some things do not add up... and what I have read on the subject raises more questions than answers.

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
I saw somewhere that something like 89% of Americans think that Iraq was responsible for the 11/9 attacks!!!

But that doesn't mean that the attacks did not happen in the way they were portrayed.

the point I was trying to make, (I was about to eat and in a rush) was that we were told (even before the dust had settled) that it was down to bin laden and al qaeda, who were in Afghanistan and NOT Iraq,
so miss informed are the American public that MOST of them think that it was Iraq behind the attacks and THAT is the reason for the American attacks ON Iraq,

but seriously? a bunch of guys who couldnt even fly a single engined light aircraft, flew huge airliners and carried out manouvers that highly experienced fighter pilots have gone on record to say THEY couldnt have done,
there are FAR too many holes in the offical story,
a civilian airliner hits the pentagon flying 10 feet off the ground leaves no marks on the lawn and compleatly vapourises on impact, have you seen photos of an aircrash?
the whole thing smells IMO

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
I saw somewhere that something like 89% of Americans think that Iraq was responsible for the 11/9 attacks!!!

But that doesn't mean that the attacks did not happen in the way they were portrayed.

the point I was trying to make, (I was about to eat and in a rush) was that we were told (even before the dust had settled) that it was down to bin laden and al qaeda, who were in Afghanistan and NOT Iraq,
so miss informed are the American public that MOST of them think that it was Iraq behind the attacks and THAT is the reason for the American attacks ON Iraq,

but seriously? a bunch of guys who couldnt even fly a single engined light aircraft, flew huge airliners and carried out manouvers that highly experienced fighter pilots have gone on record to say THEY couldnt have done,
there are FAR too many holes in the offical story,
a civilian airliner hits the pentagon flying 10 feet off the ground leaves no marks on the lawn and compleatly vapourises on impact, have you seen photos of an aircrash?
the whole thing smells IMO

The Pentagon attck smells as much as any of it.

AND ANOTHER THING......every time I post in this thread Firefox keeps crashing on me
it was happening last night as well, and ONLY when I post in THIS thread!!! DAMN now I AM paranoid (kidding)

quote:

Originally posted by mathom:

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
I saw somewhere that something like 89% of Americans think that Iraq was responsible for the 11/9 attacks!!!

But that doesn't mean that the attacks did not happen in the way they were portrayed.

the point I was trying to make, (I was about to eat and in a rush) was that we were told (even before the dust had settled) that it was down to bin laden and al qaeda, who were in Afghanistan and NOT Iraq,
so miss informed are the American public that MOST of them think that it was Iraq behind the attacks and THAT is the reason for the American attacks ON Iraq,

but seriously? a bunch of guys who couldnt even fly a single engined light aircraft, flew huge airliners and carried out manouvers that highly experienced fighter pilots have gone on record to say THEY couldnt have done,
there are FAR too many holes in the offical story,
a civilian airliner hits the pentagon flying 10 feet off the ground leaves no marks on the lawn and compleatly vapourises on impact, have you seen photos of an aircrash?
the whole thing smells IMO

The Pentagon attck smells as much as any of it.

THE most heavily defended building in the world!!!
the famous "lets roll" phone call AGAIN has been proven to be a fake, they couldnt make "cell" phone calls from the height that the plane was flying at, but we are supposed to forget that, its now part of American folklore,
at least 2 of the terrorists had been TRAINED on an American airforce base, these are the supposedly DEVOUT Moslems that used call girls, drank, snorted cocaine, and watched porn, the night before they were due in paradise!!!

The lack of VTs especially considering the fact that there was CCTV in a nearby petrol station interests me. Somebody from "the authorities" came and took it away really quickly after impact, and only a few stills have been seen since. So where were the marks on the Pentagon lawn then? Has anything been provided yet?

quote:

Originally posted by mathom:
The lack of VTs especially considering the fact that there was CCTV in a nearby petrol station interests me. Somebody from "the authorities" came and took it away really quickly after impact, and only a few stills have been seen since. So where were the marks on the Pentagon lawn then? Has anything been provided yet?

its estimated that there are in the region of 25 cctv tapes of the pentagon attack that were confiscated within an hour of the attack so far 2 have been released....WHY?

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:

quote:

Originally posted by mathom:
The lack of VTs especially considering the fact that there was CCTV in a nearby petrol station interests me. Somebody from "the authorities" came and took it away really quickly after impact, and only a few stills have been seen since. So where were the marks on the Pentagon lawn then? Has anything been provided yet?

its estimated that there are in the region of 25 cctv tapes of the pentagon attack that were confiscated within an hour of the attack so far 2 have been released....WHY?

It's all in the wording though isn't it? Confiscated or taken to be used to get a bigger picture/gain evidence?

I guess it's how you choose to look at it.

quote:

Originally posted by Soozy woo:

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:

quote:

Originally posted by mathom:
The lack of VTs especially considering the fact that there was CCTV in a nearby petrol station interests me. Somebody from "the authorities" came and took it away really quickly after impact, and only a few stills have been seen since. So where were the marks on the Pentagon lawn then? Has anything been provided yet?

its estimated that there are in the region of 25 cctv tapes of the pentagon attack that were confiscated within an hour of the attack so far 2 have been released....WHY?

It's all in the wording though isn't it? Confiscated or taken to be used to get a bigger picture/gain evidence?

I guess it's how you choose to look at it.

what almost 9 years later and they aint been released yet?
I want to be clear here I AM NOT having a pop at the American people here, there seems to be this idea on some forums that to question the events of 11/9 is to have a "go" at America, thats NOT what this is about at all, nor is it in anyway meant to be disrespectfull to those who died that day,
but there ARE questions that need answering, it wasnt ONLY Americans who lost their lives that day,

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Ogilvy:
If we could be adult about this in some way that'd be cool with me but I'm not sure if that is possible or if it is how to procceed.

Cool. So, Kate McCann. Do you accept that it was reasonable for her to invoke her right to silence as an arguido and that she was probably advised by her legal team to do so? Do you accept that it was unfair for you to post that link to her unanswered questions in the context you did thus implying that she had something to hide with regard to those specific questions? Do you accept that when this was pointed out that a person with integrity would have withdrawn it because it was unfair?

Daniel, We are never going to agree on this issue (nor many others I suspect) and that is just the way it is but I do not see a difference in opinion as justification for hounding a FM across the forum.

I dropped the McCann issue because it was becoming too heated, disagreement was giving way to heckling, I may have got heated myself (don't even remember tbh). the thread just seemed to just cause offence so I let it go...

I have little inclination to trawl through every post made, justifying every opinion and don't ask that of anyone else.

We can agreee to disagree, can we not ?

It's a new day, a new thread, I propose we start afresh as I don't see dwelling on the feuding as ever having an end point nor leading in any positive direction, If we seek the worst in each other we will find it. right down to the semi-colon.

Truce ?