Baz posted:

Built under labour ....ruled by Labour for years before the Tories came to power ....I swear if there was an earthquake in Australia these days it would somehow be deemed the Conservatives fault 

Built by labour...all flats?covered with cladding that wasn't fireproof by all labour councils?...and yes you're right, I will blame the Tories for every single thing that this country is suffering from at the moment.  The fall of the NHS, homelessness, food banks, people made to look for work whilst they are dying...caring conservatism my behind. Property treated as a commodity through sheer greed.... and I could go on, but better not. Surely not the tories getting blamed for everything, it's normally JC fault 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

Built under labour ....ruled by Labour for years before the Tories came to power ....I swear if there was an earthquake in Australia these days it would somehow be deemed the Conservatives fault 

 

Built by labour...all flats?covered with cladding that wasn't fireproof by all labour councils?...and yes you're right, I will blame the Tories for every single thing that this country is suffering from at the moment.  The fall of the NHS, homelessness, food banks, people made to look for work whilst they are dying...caring conservatism my behind. Property treated as a commodity through sheer greed.... and I could go on, but better not. Surely not the tories getting blamed for everything, it's normally JC fault 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

Built under labour ....ruled by Labour for years before the Tories came to power ....I swear if there was an earthquake in Australia these days it would somehow be deemed the Conservatives fault 

 

Built by labour...all flats?covered with cladding that wasn't fireproof by all labour councils?...and yes you're right, I will blame the Tories for every single thing that this country is suffering from at the moment.  The fall of the NHS, homelessness, food banks, people made to look for work whilst they are dying...caring conservatism my behind. Property treated as a commodity through sheer greed.... and I could go on, but better not. Surely not the tories getting blamed for everything, it's normally JC fault 

So the NHS , homelessness etc. was fine under the previous 10 years of Labour government? Is that what you're saying ?? Do you really  truly believe that the rot only set in in the last 5/6 years .....I'm sorry , but that just diminishes your argument . The country has been going to the dogs for decades under both parties ...

Baz posted:

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

Built under labour ....ruled by Labour for years before the Tories came to power ....I swear if there was an earthquake in Australia these days it would somehow be deemed the Conservatives fault 

 

Built by labour...all flats?covered with cladding that wasn't fireproof by all labour councils?...and yes you're right, I will blame the Tories for every single thing that this country is suffering from at the moment.  The fall of the NHS, homelessness, food banks, people made to look for work whilst they are dying...caring conservatism my behind. Property treated as a commodity through sheer greed.... and I could go on, but better not. Surely not the tories getting blamed for everything, it's normally JC fault 

So the NHS , homelessness etc. was fine under the previous 10 years of Labour government? Is that what you're saying ?? Do you really  truly believe that the rot only set in in the last 5/6 years .....I'm sorry , but that just diminishes your argument . The country has been going to the dogs for decades under both parties ...

Only, the Tories have made it a hundred per cent worse when they could've made it better.

I'm bowing out of this thread now, it's Saturday night and I need to chill 

Sprout posted:

Baz posted:

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

Built under labour ....ruled by Labour for years before the Tories came to power ....I swear if there was an earthquake in Australia these days it would somehow be deemed the Conservatives fault 

 

Built by labour...all flats?covered with cladding that wasn't fireproof by all labour councils?...and yes you're right, I will blame the Tories for every single thing that this country is suffering from at the moment.  The fall of the NHS, homelessness, food banks, people made to look for work whilst they are dying...caring conservatism my behind. Property treated as a commodity through sheer greed.... and I could go on, but better not. Surely not the tories getting blamed for everything, it's normally JC fault 

So the NHS , homelessness etc. was fine under the previous 10 years of Labour government? Is that what you're saying ?? Do you really  truly believe that the rot only set in in the last 5/6 years .....I'm sorry , but that just diminishes your argument . The country has been going to the dogs for decades under both parties ...

Only, the Tories have made it a hundred per cent worse when they could've made it better.

 

I'm bowing out of this thread now, it's Saturday night and I need to chill 

Don't blame you ...me too 

Baz posted:

So the NHS , homelessness etc. was fine under the previous 10 years of Labour government? Is that what you're saying ?? Do you really  truly believe that the rot only set in in the last 5/6 years .....I'm sorry , but that just diminishes your argument . The country has been going to the dogs for years....under both parties ...l 

Check the figures Baz, they are there for all to see and yes it was far far better...The rot set in with austerity, we now have double the debt, growth the lowest in the G7 and the rich have got richer...the figures are there for all to see. 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

So the NHS , homelessness etc. was fine under the previous 10 years of Labour government? Is that what you're saying ?? Do you really  truly believe that the rot only set in in the last 5/6 years .....I'm sorry , but that just diminishes your argument . The country has been going to the dogs for years....under both parties ...l 

 

Check the figures Baz, they are there for all to see and yes it was far far better...The rot set in with austerity, we now have double the debt, growth the lowest in the G7 and the rich have got richer...the figures are there to all to see. 

 

 

 

Dame I'm sorry , but as I've said before you ....people in general ....can always find statistics to support whatever argument they want to make .....as they say there are lies, damned lies and statistics .....but the amount of sheer hate being generated lately truly appalls me  ....and moreover risks damaging the country as a whole .....rich and poor.....imo  

Baz posted:

So the NHS , homelessness etc. was fine under the previous 10 years of Labour government? Is that what you're saying ?? Do you really  truly believe that the rot only set in in the last 5/6 years .....I'm sorry , but that just diminishes your argument . The country has been going to the dogs for decades under both parties ...

That we can agree on starting with neoliberalism under Thatcher, dutifully carried on by Blair and now May 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

So the NHS , homelessness etc. was fine under the previous 10 years of Labour government? Is that what you're saying ?? Do you really  truly believe that the rot only set in in the last 5/6 years .....I'm sorry , but that just diminishes your argument . The country has been going to the dogs for decades under both parties ...

 

That we can agree on starting with neoliberalism under Thatcher, dutifully carried on by Blair and now May 

 TBH though if ever I thought of going back to voting Labour the hate I've seen /read recently has put me right off 

Baz posted:

Dame I'm sorry , but as I've said before you ....people in general ....can always find statistics to support whatever argument they want to make .....as they say there are lies, damned lies and statistics .....but the amount of sheer hate being generated lately truly appalls me  ....and moreover risks damaging the country as a whole .....rich and poor.....imo  

as for the statistics, point me to a hospital closures under Labour, point me to where before 2010 if I had an heart attack, car crash or stroke I would have to travel to a hospital for over a hour to get medical help and in some cases the next county. 

Honestly Baz, if you can not see what the cause of the problem is I can't make you...I have said many, many times on this forum over the last seven years it will end in tears when the right and the right wing media continue to blame immigrants for taking jobs hospital beds, where people unemployed, poor, disabled are classed as scroungers ..society turns in on itself.....

Baz posted:

 TBH though if ever I thought of going back to voting Labour the hate I've seen /read recently has put me right off 

Baz honestly...do you want me to start posting some of the Conservative stuff, I've never trolled a site in my life, but I have seen some despicable stuff that tories have wrote  

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

Dame I'm sorry , but as I've said before you ....people in general ....can always find statistics to support whatever argument they want to make .....as they say there are lies, damned lies and statistics .....but the amount of sheer hate being generated lately truly appalls me  ....and moreover risks damaging the country as a whole .....rich and poor.....imo  

 

as for the statistics, point me to a hospital closures under Labour, point me to where before 2010 if I had an heart attack, car crash or stroke I would have to travel to a hospital for over a hour to get medical help and in some cases the next county. 

Honestly Baz, if you can not see what the cause of the problem is I can't make you...I have said many, many times on this forum over the last seven years it will end in tears when the right and the right wing media continue to blame immigrants for taking jobs hospital beds, where people unemployed, poor, disabled are classed as scroungers ..society turns in on itself.....

I agree about the far right ....sad thing is that the far left seem to be equally destructive ....we need consensus and societal cohesion ...not a class war  

Baz posted:

I agree about the far right ....sad thing is that the far left seem to be equally destructive ....we need consensus and societal cohesion ...not a class war  

what is far left Baz...socialism isn't far left. Labour's policy was always about controlling immigration, although no one cared to even bother to look at what they were saying. 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

 TBH though if ever I thought of going back to voting Labour the hate I've seen /read recently has put me right off 

 

Baz honestly...do you want me to start posting some of the Conservative stuff, I've never trolled a site in my life, but I have seen some despicable stuff that tories have wrote  

I'm not talking specifically about here Dame .....and yes , as I said the far right is appalling too .....trouble is it is all getting totally polarised .....it is ripping the country apart ....which will hit those in most need even harder  

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

I agree about the far right ....sad thing is that the far left seem to be equally destructive ....we need consensus and societal cohesion ...not a class war  

 

what is far left Baz...socialism isn't far left. Labour's policy was always about controlling immigration, although no one cared to even bother to look at what they were saying. 

I'm sorry Dame ...but what I've seen and read is way to the left of socialism .....

Baz posted:

I'm not talking specifically about here Dame .....and yes , as I said the far right is appalling too .....trouble is it is all getting totally polarised .....it is ripping the country apart ....which will hit those in most need even harder  

I'm not talking about here either Baz...I tend to scroll passed trolls and don't engage and I can promise you I bet it's equal on either side, depending on what side you're on  

I think the Levinson thing should never have been dropped, we need papers regulated to tell the truth and not stir up hatred and the far right not to be given a platform...feck sake they are doing Isis's job at recruiting if they carry on. 

Baz posted:

 

I'm sorry Dame ...but what I've seen and read is way to the left of socialism .....

no it's not Baz and I would love to know where and what you have been reading  this shadow Cabinet would be considered Liberal in Norway or Sweden and they are amazed at things said about the Labour party. 

Here goes....twopennorth on the NHS as I've experienced it locally and I have a season ticket at the local hospital 

between 2000-10, it was a scruffy place that I wouldn't like to be confined in. The inefficiency was terrible, half the nurses couldn't speak English and basic mistakes were being made all over the place......Then there came a change of management when it became part of a much bigger trust.

I have to go there on a regular basis , since 2015 for me, but the hubby also has a season ticket . the care I cannot fault,the doctors and nurses are lovely and the consultants don't believe they're god. On the other hand, the bureaucracy is diabolical and seems to lack common sense in some areas. There is simply too much of it

is the hospital understaffed.....yes at the coal face because the infrastructure hasn't kept up with the demand for services. However, as the doctors and nurses rush about, there seems to be a hell of a lot of pen pushers with too much time on their hands

IMO......both Labour and Tory governments are to blame, but the place declined badly in The Blair years and greatly improved once the Conservatives came into power, but they have let the medical side become overstretched