Because, it's about those that can, and those that can't 
My feeling is, if you can, do it, if you can't, well then peeps should be kinder to you 
I can totally see your point there
In a car park I think there's no need for Parent and child parking to be as close as disabled parking.
This is an issue of mobility - disabled can struggle to walk distances (like me Mum)
But with space on a bus I feel a person in a wheelchair can wait their turn just as easily and possibly more comfortably than anyone else. And so doesn't need to go first
Saint posted:I can totally see your point there
In a car park I think there's no need for Parent and child parking to be as close as disabled parking.
This is an issue of mobility - disabled can struggle to walk distances (like me Mum)
But with space on a bus I feel a person in a wheelchair can wait their turn just as easily and possibly more comfortably than anyone else. And so doesn't need to go first
But it's the space that's allocated to them. If peeps keep taking up their spaces, what are they to do?
The issue is - should it be their space? Exclusively?
Saint posted:The issue is - should it be their space? Exclusively?
Yes! because mostly parents with buggies can move down the bus, wheelchair users can't!
velvet donkey posted:You're going round in circles.
We are, and I can't get it through Velvy 
Ok - end of thread then
Cheers
Kaffs posted:velvet donkey posted:So you think a wheelchair user and a (young) mum/dad are equal?
I don't get it.
me either - and don't start me on parent and kid parking spaces at the front door of a shop. They can walk.
Tell us about your experiences with parking spaces.
The busses up here have two spaces - designed slightly differently, but both can accommodate a pram OR a wheelchair. Both spaces also have seats that fold up, thus most situations are covered! And I have rarely seen any occasion where there has been any conflict in their use. There was one occasion where there were three prams on the bus at the same time, but as they were buggies as opposed to older type prams, two were able to fit side by side in one of the spaces.
Try living in rural lincolnshire where buses only run once an hour, first on takes priority, not all pushchairs can be folded down easily especially with said baby in arms! and the presumption that it is a young mother? I often take grandchildren on the bus and the young woman may be taking the child to nursery before going to work
Machel, I still say yet (and I know it's hard) but that mother can ask for help to move her down the bus. A wheelchair user must sit at the front in the bay. The wheelchair is too wide to get down the bus aisle
Ask for help? in this county? The buses we have (notoriuos for breaking down) do not have aisles wide enough for any pushchair and it is not unknown to have several pushchairs in the door well,
We sometimes have buses with seats that have priority for the elderly, do we eject passengers if an elderly person gets on and needs that seat? And yes someone should stand but as I said this is lincolnshire
machel posted:Ask for help? in this county? The buses we have (notoriuos for breaking down) do not have aisles wide enough for any pushchair and it is not unknown to have several pushchairs in the door well,
We sometimes have buses with seats that have priority for the elderly, do we eject passengers if an elderly person gets on and needs that seat? And yes someone should stand but as I said this is lincolnshire
Do you mean folded up pushchair?
Well then, you all need to sort your MP out or get on to the bus company yourselves
Ok let me ask it this way... A packed bus pulls up in the pouring rain, there are the max amount of pushchairs on the bus with one in the disabled area... The Mum in the disabled area has just been to do her weekly frozen shop and her pushchair is packed with bags as well as her baby... She also has a two year old older child who is walking. A wheel chair user is at said stop but there is no room..... It's very difficult for the Mum to unpack the whole pushchair, and then with her baby in her arms fold the pushchair down and lift it into the tiny storage areas and even if she manages it by asking a total stranger to hold her baby... There's no room anywhere else on the bus anyway!
They both paid the same fare....
I personally don't think its fair to make it law the that Mum HAS to get off and wait with her young child and baby in the rain for the next bus to make room for anyone getting on after her, reguardless of their ability. BUT i do think it's a matter of common decency to do so anyway...
PS.... I was said Mum and i did get off (and wet!) but I honestly don't feel it should be law.
Maybe bus companies should be forced to make more 'multi functional seating' on all buses to avoid this all together?
With reference to the article I quoted ...
As of 2014 it was law for bus companies to provide a disabled place for wheelchair users.
It was not law to provide storage for prams and the like.
If there was a scenario where the bus was full and a wheelchair user wanted to board then as the law stood the driver would be in his/her right to ask the parent and pram to alight to make way.
I don't know if this law still stands as I rarely use public transport.
As Jen said perhaps this point of potential conflict would be averted if the space was designated for those in need rather than just for one type of need.
Sprout posted:machel posted:Ask for help? in this county? The buses we have (notoriuos for breaking down) do not have aisles wide enough for any pushchair and it is not unknown to have several pushchairs in the door well,
We sometimes have buses with seats that have priority for the elderly, do we eject passengers if an elderly person gets on and needs that seat? And yes someone should stand but as I said this is lincolnshire
Do you mean folded up pushchair?
Well then, you all need to sort your MP out or get on to the bus company yourselves
Mother, father, grandparent, whoever, pushchair in one hand, baby in other and shopping balancing on head will no be able to walk down the aisles, and as for the bus company, one driver got the kids to push the bus when it broke down, needless to say they lost that contract
I don't think it should be law to make someone get off... but people should be more considerate like Jen imo.
I'll qualify some of my statements about mum's and parking.... and the sense of entitlement I referred to. I recently witnessed a HUGE thread on FB where certain parents were moaning about people parking in parent and child spots when they had no kids.... and one selfish madam said it really annoyed her (fair enough) - but if there were disabled spaces there, she'd park in them if the parents/kids were full... she didn't want her child to have to walk across a car park..... and she also said she'd park there without the kids because she was pregnant, so technically 'had a baby on board' and she needed space to get out of the car. I'm fat. So I do... park further away where there's room then. All the other mums were 'oh you're quite right hun... people are so selfish' They were friends of a relative.. I had to sit on my hands...
Kaffs posted:I don't think it should be law to make someone get off... but people should be more considerate like Jen imo.
I'll qualify some of my statements about mum's and parking.... and the sense of entitlement I referred to. I recently witnessed a HUGE thread on FB where certain parents were moaning about people parking in parent and child spots when they had no kids.... and one selfish madam said it really annoyed her (fair enough) - but if there were disabled spaces there, she'd park in them if the parents/kids were full... she didn't want her child to have to walk across a car park..... and she also said she'd park there without the kids because she was pregnant, so technically 'had a baby on board' and she needed space to get out of the car. I'm fat. So I do... park further away where there's room then. All the other mums were 'oh you're quite right hun... people are so selfish' They were friends of a relative.. I had to sit on my hands...
The Parent and Child spaces are a little annoying and i never park in them (Even though my youngest is only 6)
I do see a need for them though, with the carry car seats that are used for newborns being a total pain in the butt to get in and out and practically impossible if you don't have enough room... BUT they don't necessarily need to be right at the front of the store.
Is 'child' any one under 16?
Jen-Star posted:Ok let me ask it this way... A packed bus pulls up in the pouring rain, there are the max amount of pushchairs on the bus with one in the disabled area... The Mum in the disabled area has just been to do her weekly frozen shop and her pushchair is packed with bags as well as her baby... She also has a two year old older child who is walking. A wheel chair user is at said stop but there is no room..... It's very difficult for the Mum to unpack the whole pushchair, and then with her baby in her arms fold the pushchair down and lift it into the tiny storage areas and even if she manages it by asking a total stranger to hold her baby... There's no room anywhere else on the bus anyway!
They both paid the same fare....
I personally don't think its fair to make it law the that Mum HAS to get off and wait with her young child and baby in the rain for the next bus to make room for anyone getting on after her, reguardless of their ability. BUT i do think it's a matter of common decency to do so anyway...
PS.... I was said Mum and i did get off (and wet!) but I honestly don't feel it should be law.
Maybe bus companies should be forced to make more 'multi functional seating' on all buses to avoid this all together?
When I started reading this I thought it was going to be one of those "you have a chicken, a bag of grain and a fox and you have to get them all across the river but the boat can only hold..."
Having said about our busses having two spaces....I was on a bus today that only had one! 
What was the instruction on the space Fluffy?
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:Jen-Star posted:Ok let me ask it this way... A packed bus pulls up in the pouring rain, there are the max amount of pushchairs on the bus with one in the disabled area... The Mum in the disabled area has just been to do her weekly frozen shop and her pushchair is packed with bags as well as her baby... She also has a two year old older child who is walking. A wheel chair user is at said stop but there is no room..... It's very difficult for the Mum to unpack the whole pushchair, and then with her baby in her arms fold the pushchair down and lift it into the tiny storage areas and even if she manages it by asking a total stranger to hold her baby... There's no room anywhere else on the bus anyway!
They both paid the same fare....
I personally don't think its fair to make it law the that Mum HAS to get off and wait with her young child and baby in the rain for the next bus to make room for anyone getting on after her, reguardless of their ability. BUT i do think it's a matter of common decency to do so anyway...
PS.... I was said Mum and i did get off (and wet!) but I honestly don't feel it should be law.
Maybe bus companies should be forced to make more 'multi functional seating' on all buses to avoid this all together?
When I started reading this I thought it was going to be one of those "you have a chicken, a bag of grain and a fox and you have to get them all across the river but the boat can only hold..."
It does read a bit like question on a test paper
MOD ^
Saint posted:What was the instruction on the space Fluffy?
"This space is reserved for a wheelchair user"
Then in smaller writing there is a bit that says....."please vacate this area if it is needed by a wheelchair user"
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
MOD ^
Is that Mod or MoD? 
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Saint posted:What was the instruction on the space Fluffy?
"This space is reserved for a wheelchair user"
Then in smaller writing there is a bit that says....."please vacate this area if it is needed by a wheelchair user"
Discriminatory i'd say
Saint posted:Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Saint posted:What was the instruction on the space Fluffy?
"This space is reserved for a wheelchair user"
Then in smaller writing there is a bit that says....."please vacate this area if it is needed by a wheelchair user"
Discriminatory i'd say
The somewhat odd thing is that the area, which on other busses is the 2nd space is actually there, but where the other busses have fold-up seats in it, this bus had two fixed bucket seats facing each other.
Saint posted:Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Saint posted:What was the instruction on the space Fluffy?
"This space is reserved for a wheelchair user"
Then in smaller writing there is a bit that says....."please vacate this area if it is needed by a wheelchair user"
Discriminatory i'd say
However most people vacate it for a pram ..... and even a bicycle!
Allocating space in a car park is one of mobility and so space should prioritise the disabled.
Allocating space on a bus is one of convenience so a wheelchair user or a parent with pram can both wait their turn without either needing priority.
South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive have just this week introduced a new rule when it comes to available spaces for diasbled passengers. If a disabled passenger boards a bus and there are no free spaces, then the driver has to give up his/her seat.
brilliant
Saint posted:Kaffs posted:velvet donkey posted:So you think a wheelchair user and a (young) mum/dad are equal?
I don't get it.
me either - and don't start me on parent and kid parking spaces at the front door of a shop. They can walk.
I read somewhere that if parents were fit enough to have kids they were fit enough to walk across the car park with them, lol
However I just don't think its fair to expect a mum with child to get off a bus to allow a wheelchair on.
Why should someone in a wheelchair be given priority?
because the person in the wheelchair might have to maneuver it him/herself & thats difficult-whereas a parent maneuvers a pushchair-so in all fairness the less capable person wins
Saint posted:Allocating space in a car park is one of mobility and so space should prioritise the disabled.
Allocating space on a bus is one of convenience so a wheelchair user or a parent with pram can both wait their turn without either needing priority.
the hint is this
wheelchair users come first
and this
I disagree.
Why should someone in a wheelchair not have to wait too?
Cos it's about waiting your turn.
Question is - why should a wheelchair user not have to wait their turn like us all. After all they are seated in comfort so where's the need?
If the space specifically says it is for wheelchair users, then they must have priority on that space.
If it says for wheelchair users or prams, then it should be first come, first served.
I don't think someone who has paid for a ticket should be asked to leave the bus to make room for another passenger, so drivers should make sure that mum/dad/grandparents with prams/buggies are aware that they shouldn't use the wheelchair space.
In my day, there were no spaces for buggies and we had to fold them down and put them in the luggage space. I did that with a baby, a three year old and a six year old and shopping bags in tow.