I found myself agreeing with a lot of what he said, but not the hashtag at the end.

I agree to a certain extent, but should school be expected to give people a full social education AS WELL AS a traditional one?

I think it is a load of bollox.. School is  there to learn and to teach you how to learn. .

 

having a broad knowledge of things is relevant to life. .  it can often show why were are where we are now and why decisions made now are made based on previous and historical experience and knowledge.It also makes people grow as they widen their knowledge in all things.

 

He mentions having a calculator so why does he need mental maths. Well sonny boy if you don't have a rough idea of the cost of what you've bought and what change you are going to get a calculator is a waste of time if you haven't input the correct numbers. The mental maths helps you know your input is correct and the calculator will just give you an more exact figure but, you should know roughly what it will be anyway.

 

Parents are meant to teach children the stuff related to the wider world. . why should schools be the ones taking over parenting roles. . Lazy parents makes for lazy kids who have a strop because they are being taught to learn and don't like what they are being taught. Tough!  Get on with it, and parents start taking responsibility for your kids education in non academic subject. .it's YOUR job, not the teachers! 

 

Fed up of moany kids having a strop because they 'don't want to do 'that' what ever that is'. Life is like that, you have to do stuff you don't want to do. . [your parents should have taught you that too] good luck getting a job, and keeping it, with an attitude like that

 

 

The guy covers so much ground it's difficult to know where to start. Although I think he makes a few valid points I disagree with much of it and I think he's got some fundamentally wrong notions of what schools are for and the purpose of learning in general. I could probably fill up several pages with my thoughts on this, but as I don't have the time (and I doubt other FMs have the inclination to read it all   ), I'll break it down into a number of responses that I can post as time allows.

 

I'll tackle the mental arithmetic vs calculator argument first, as it's something that's been on my mind since the depressing sight of watching the HMs attempt the maths and spelling games at the start of the series. The argument that you don't need to teach mental arithmetic anymore because everyone uses a calculator now has actually been around for decades (I remember it cropping up on "Yes, Minister"), but I still consider it falacious. As Olly says, you still need to understand the basics of maths before you can use a calculator.

 

The "everyone has a calculator in their pocket" line has only really come true in the last few years with the development of smart phones, but even then - how many people get their calculators out to work out their bus fare, or the cost of their shopping? A lot of it comes down to having available a range of "tools" for different jobs. I work in a very technical field, so I need a scientific calculator. Something like 20 years ago I went out and bought the best solar-powered scientific calculator I could find, and I'm still using it. Admittedly I've tended to use my phone calculator more over the last year or so, but that's largely for convenience and I still sometimes use my "real" calculator because I like the feedback of real buttons and I find I'm less likely to make mistakes. I remember seeing an interview a little while back with Sir Clive Sinclair (who started off making pocket calculators, of course), and I was reminded that he famously still carries a slide rule around with him. His point is that there are some things (e.g. currency conversion) that can actually be done better on a slide rule than on a calculator. It's horses for courses...

 

There's also a wider general point (which I'll probably come back to later) that any learning can have unforseen benefits further down the line: although a particular subject may seem irrelevant in itself, it can form a building-block that leads to something-else that is relevant. Also there are the fundamental skills that you develop that are usually more valuable in the long run than the information itself...

I too noticed that most of the subjects he wanted taught were related to "social" skills, while most of those he objected to tended to relate to "work" skills. This also ties-in with Olly's point about the responsibility of parents. Should schools really be teaching parenting skills? [As an aside: it seemed strange that he implicitly criticised more "traditional" sex education (how to put on a condom), but I'm guessing that was just sloppy writing on his part...   ]

 

Part of the reason for teaching a wide range of subjects - many of which may not appear immediately relevant - is that every pupil is different and you have to try a variety of things to discover what you're good at and what you enjoy. This is why I'm a bit concerned at the current trend to encourage children to specialize at a fairly young age: you risk missing out on much, and you never know if something that seems irrelevant now might crop up again in your future career. When I started on my first job, very little of what I did for my degree was directly relevant. However when I moved to a different company 6 years later, much of it suddenly became relevant again...

yes that is sooo true. . What you learn formulates how you grow and think in the future even if at the time of learning it you think why am I having to study this. I immediately think of Animal Farm that we to study.. that taught us a lot of lessons for the future. . Lord of the Flies was another. .Merchant of Venice had a lesson to be learnt, as did Julius Ceasar and so on.. History which I personally hated back then is very relevant to us, it can teach us to maybe not make the same mistakes but, is also how we got to where we are now.

 

As you say maths is very important too and so many people don't even realise they are using it in their every day lives.  Think recipes and measurements and add some science to that and knowing too much or too little of something could effect the outcome. All of the basics would have been learnt at school even if people didn't think they took it in or indeed needed it. Think betting shop and working out the odds, think handing over 20 quid for some shopping and knowing you have got the wrong change.. 

 

RE calcualtors, I did a statistics module as part of my degree and used a scientific calculator but, I then followed up with doing the equations by hand to double check the calculator result   

 

English Lang taught us how to formulate letters of all types, business, formal, friendly etc.. pretty sure that is no longer done anymore considering stuff I see nowadays

 

What that idiot in that clip needs to do is learn, from having to learn as a kid, and go and research the things he claims he knows nothing about. errrm like what we had to do at school and in higher education too, research. Or ask his parents to enlighten him as well.. 

I'm not really up on the current school system, and I know that formal education can vary enormously from area to area and from generation to generation, but I did wonder while listening to that piece just what this guy actually got taught at school.

 

Yes, learning about tax is useful: that's why I was taught it at primary school (i.e. by the time I was 11). We were also taught how to calculate interest and work out our gas and electric bills - you know: stuff that's actually useful in real life. Something else he mentions: first aid. I got taught that at primary school too (actually additional after-school classes TBF, but they were organized within the school system).

 

[Just remembered something-else: it was thanks to a primary school-led scheme that I learned to swim. I was (IMO) a comparatively late learner (my parents never taught me, which was perhaps surprising considering their backgrounds), but by the time I went to secondary school I was competing for my local swimming club...] 

 

And what school did he go to that doesn't teach foreign languages? I thought it was compulsory. Two years of French was certainly compulsory at my secondary school, with continuing learning and other languages optional. Heck, don't a lot of primary/junior schools teach foreign languages now?

 

More than any other school subject, History can be a political football. However I found his rant about rote learning a little odd, as I thought that school history had largely moved from that towards a more "skills"-led approach (e.g. how to do research. weigh-up evidence, etc) decades ago. It's the reason why one of my few school-time regrets is that I didn't continue with History as an option. Certainly the "Henry VIII's wives" thing he refers to is something I was never taught at school, but only found out much later (probably from TV).

I totally agree Olly  

Like Eugene, French was compulsory for us for the first two years of Secondary school. In second year we could add Latin or German if we wanted.

In fact, all the subjects taught in the first two years were compulsory, with the exception of those two languages. I think it was 8,though I can only think of 7. Then again, maybe it was only 7, leaving a potential space for an additional language.

So first off I am a good parent.... I am teaching my three children to be well rounded humans with good morals and ethics...

 

The reason i liked this video (in parts) is for one.. there are far too many parents who don't know how things work and literally live hand to mouth... They have lost touch with the real intricacy's of the bigger picture... So never hand that knowledge on to their own children.. Then those kids have babies and so on...

 

I don't mean this to sound rude (I hope i don't cause offence) but i think I'm one of the most recent school leavers in this discussion and i honestly think school taught me nothing to do with REAL LIFE... 

 

All of Europe are in debt and in hard time austerity.... but why? I'll tell you why and THIS is what should be taught in schools with regards to finance's  

 

 

Jen the point a lot of us was making is that school is for education on particular subjects that your parents may not be able to teach you but, also play a part in informing your adulthood whether students are aware of it or not.., Also school teaches you that whether you like it or not you do have to do things you may not want to. Now that is a huge life lesson in itself!

 

No matter what age any of us are we'd probably all say school never really taught us anything to do with real life, the same as you do but, it did we just didn't know it when we were younger. It also taught us that not everyone can be a winner and there is a hierarchy in life and you have to earn your place in it then you will get the respect that comes with that, not demand it, which the kids nowadays do seem to think is their right.

 

Parents are there to teach you about the real life stuff and real life values, that is not the job of schools or teachers 

 

yes it has fallen down due to so many people having kids when they are still kids themselves and most haven't even had a job so not learnt about how life works and that it isn't all going to be handed to them on a plate, and then their kids ending up doing the same.. but, it still isn't the job of the school to take on a parenting role. .that is down to social services to check on parents, and teach them parenting skills [i.e. real life stuff] if they haven't got any . .that is what they are there for

I don't want school to take on a parent role..... I do think they should teach more actual life skills though... Martin Lewis has campaigned for years to get money sense taught in schools... Running a household and budgeting to save (if possible) so there is less need for small scale credit.. Mortgages - how they work and all the different types etc - utilities..

Cooking... My daughter made pizza... She HAD to take a prepackaged pizza base mix... To me that's just a total waste of time

I'm not saying all the things taught in school are wrong and I said at the top the #dontstayinschool part of that vid is just plain silly.. But I do think they could use their resources and time in a more productive way...

Money sense should be taught at home.

 

Altho maybe with all the credit people use nowadays, and am guilty of having done that myself, and the need to have something now, not save for it, then perhaps it could be added to part of the Maths lessons for a while so a new generation grow up with a better knowledge base to teach their kids, cos a lot of the current lot appear to not have it.

 

However, it really is a parents job to teach kids that just because they want something and want it now doesn't mean they can get it now or next week, and a bit of sacrifice and saving along the way to get what they want is needed. Again not a lesson for schools that's a parents job but they have to lead by example themselves.

 

A lot of the advice that is apparently being wanted to be taught at school is governed by laws and special qualifications are needed to impart financial advice.  Teachers have enough to do as it is without studying for extra qualifications to teach kids stuff they should learn at home.

 

One benefit kids and parents have nowadays is the easy access to the Web and the wealth of information available out there, that is if they bothered to learn how to research information while spending time moaning about studying some subject or other at school

 

 

After doing a bit of research, it seems his message is not for children to leave school, but for school's to have more important "life" subjects.

 

I guess #WeNeedMoreLifeSubjectsInSchoolMr.PrimeministerPleaseThankYouVeryMuch

 

was too long.

If you can get passed his... erm... personality... this video may be of interest... or maybe not.

 

I think some of us got the message so it can't have been that long.. We, well I for one, disagreed with the message when it is the parents job to teach life skills not teachers.

 

I am not against certain life skills being included as part of learning a specific subject if they are relevant to that subject but, I am against lazy parenting that want schools to do everything for them,.. except perhaps discipline their kids

One thing that my parents and my teachers taught me was that it was awfully rude to poke your tongue out at people

Thanx for that Rawky, he is a little annoying but I agree with him 100%

Yes well I am the forum witch/pain in the arse etc, according to Cosmo I think, and probably others so, I will continue to do so

 

However, it is a tongue in cheek not nasty sticky out tongue but, make of it what you want ....................

Huge errors in his video repsonse

 

the one thing you don't need to be to teach life skills is an academic. So 'uneducated' parents are just as well placed to teach them, more so in some respects than educated ones.

 

Secondly the formative years of learning are about learning to learn and adding some building blocks for when you are old enough to start specialising, which is usually around the time you start thinking about further education and focus your subjects around the ones you need for your preferred speciality.

 

For those kids in unfortunate situations there is the Social services that are de facto parents and more should be done to ensure they do their roles properly rather than shove their job on to teachers too .. .

 

The education system has changed dramatically since I was at school so don't know where he is getting that it has never changed point from either.  We weren't taught any of the stuff he is banging on about but somehow we found out and no internet either. .lets see. .  First Aid  [his bugbear apparently] learnt about that at brownies which also taught other 'life skills' too. Presume the boys learnt similar at cubs and scouts. and fairly sure we learnt that in school as well ..possibly in PE... Voting:. . watched the news, read newspapers, listened to conversations around me..    Bought a house: I happened to work in a bank so knew how that worked, others read up about it or asked those who were qualified to give advice.. and so on..

 

If there is a case I'd say in the year before kids are due to leave school add in some technical 'life' stuff about things like taxes, loans etc maybe. .oh and having to do what you are told at work if you want to keep your job ..  

In Scotland,when I was at school, we did maths and arithmetic as two separate subjects, once at secondary school. Arithmetic incorporated things like working out percentages, money calculations (as in shopping), interest calculations (as in mortgages and banking), as well as the basic add/subtract/multiply/divide.Why this no longer appears to be the case, I have no idea!

 

P.S. Arithmetic was a compulsory subject to 'O Grade' level. I.e.an exam had to be sat in it at the end of your fourth year at secondary school.

That would be good, alongside some of the traditional learning show examples of how it could be used in 'real life'. Things like fractions to work out discounts when shopping as I think someone said earlier, mental arithmetic to work out if you have the right change, or tally up a shop as you're going around - and make them work to a budget. It would probably help people learn too if you can relate it to something real/practical.

 

 

Here here Plus , alongside the academic skills I think one of the most significantly things that seems to be absent in school these days (IMO)  is discipline.....and more importantly the *art* of  self discipline .... which I consider to be a major * building block* towards a well balanced , and productive member of society .

I agree 100% Baz, far too many kids now a days don't care about being told off at school, which in turn just disrupts everyone else who is eager to learn.. They really should be tougher on repeat offenders in a lot of schools... I'm so happy that i managed to get my daughter into a decent school and now as a result my Son is starting there in Sept too They have hard working ethics and and punishments that scale quickly.