After the last task Helen makes the comment of the night "agressive, when have I ever been aggressive ?"

Ash the replies "You're being aggressive about not being aggressive"

she has no self awareness ...none .

Yogi I said unless there was a court, (Care) order. Such orders are only granted when the child is deemed, by the court to be at risk of significant harm, (abuse or neglect). As I understand it the equivalent orders in Scotland are called Child Protection Orders.

Place of safety orders, which haven't existed for many years, (1989 in England, I think the mid 90s in Scotland,) were also court orders for emergency child protection purposes. The police do however have powers to take or retain a child to a place of safety  in emergency situations.

The interesting thing is that she says she doesn't blame her parents Baz, she says she was a nightmare, but she also says she had a horrible childhood, (or words to that effect.) Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way condoning her behaviour in the house, although I do think it has improved dramatically of late, for whatever reason. I'm also interested how she came to engage in such behaviour, what function it served for her and am ever the believer that given the right circumstances, most , (although by no means all,) people can change

By the same token, nor do we know what the parents put her through either.

I'm no expert but boys don't seem to get pregnant at 16.

maybe it was, then again, we don't know that it's all down to Helen either, just because her brothers turned out ok.  Parents don't always treat siblings equally.   Case in point... the local mother who just admitted battering her five year old to death and burying him in the woods had been googling 'why do I love all my children except one?'    

Thank you for the info.  Admittedly, my limited knowledge of such things was when my parents were fostering for 30 years in the 1970's, 80's, 90's.

Very true, but Helen didn't get pregnant when she was living at home, it happened whilst she was in care.

I don't know what sort of parents Helen's parents were, but by her own admission Helen was incredibly difficult. I just think the comments in this thread which laid the blame at Helen's parent's door for Helen going off the rails seemed very unfair, as we do not know all the facts.

In my experience, some children don't get the love and support they ought to, and that can cause them to go off the rails.

Whilst other children go off the rails, in spite of being loved and cherished throughout their lives.

Sadly, that is very true, but we have no knowledge that it was like that in Helen's case, and that's why I think it is unfair to blame her parents. Interestingly, neither does Helen. 

No, Yogi, I know she doesn't.. and I don't really lay all the blame at her parents door - I just wonder what did make her turn out the way she did.   I just have a feeling that she's been damaged at some time.

Although that's possible and I think we always want there to be a reason for children's bad behaviour, sometimes there isn't anything or anyone else to blame.

We never question the reasons why someone may be naturally gifted.

Someone may be naturally athletic

Someone may have a natural artistic ability

Some people seem to have a knack at picking up languages.

They tend to be accepted as natural gifts.

So why do we need to question why some people are naturally aggressive or antisocial?

Does there always need to be a reason?

For once I agree with you Renton  

My sister has 3 children - all completely different

I don;t believe its either nature or nurture (though of course to some extent it must have a little influence)

Its more so a completely unique combination of genetics/chemicals that have made them the individuals that they are.

So do I.