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Just seen this outrageous news on the BBC website:

 

MPs have voted through a controversial measure that gives England's Health Secretary sweeping powers to close local hospitals, even if they are performing well.

Clause 119 in the Care Bill allows a hospital to be closed or downgraded if a neighbouring trust is struggling financially.

Government maintains it is a good way to address local care issues.

But critics say the powers put finances ahead of patient care.

Clause 119 gives special administrators the power to make changes to neighbouring services while trying to rescue failing NHS trusts.

It was inserted into the bill after the High Court ruled last October that Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt had acted outside his powers when he decided the emergency and maternity units at Lewisham Hospital, in south-east London, should be cut back to save a neighbouring trust that was going bust - Queen Elizabeth Hospital Woolwich.

It means Trust Special Administrators who take over any failing NHS trusts in England can push through whatever other local changes they think are necessary, although they will have to consult the public, commissioners and staff.

297 ministers voted in favour of Clause 119, while 239 voted against it.

Labour shadow health secretary Andy Burnham told MPs Clause 119 was dangerous and wrong.

He said: "It creates an entirely new route for hospital reconfiguration, top-down finance-led. It subverts the established process in the NHS which requires that any changes to hospitals should first and foremost be about saving lives, rather than saving money, and it puts management consultants, not medical consultants or GPs, in the driving seat."

Labour says more than 30 cash-strapped trusts could face closures.

There have been several high-profile campaigns to save hospitals and services earmarked for closure in recent years, including the Save Lewisham Hospital campaign.

Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt said clause 119 would help drive forward changes to ensure patient safety when trusts were found to be failing.

 

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Originally Posted by Pengy:

so in other words close down any hospital they like and privatise the rest which is what this government have wanted all along 

 

we knew this was on the agenda when they were voted in...oh, I beg to differ they weren't voted in  Selfish barstewards, I've never known a government set a country back so many years in so short a time... 

Dame_Ann_Average
Originally Posted by Dame_Ann_Average:
Originally Posted by pirate1111:

i dont mean wanky students in guy fawkes masks breaking into shops

but a proper silent protest with thousands should shit 'em up

 

we've had loads of protests up here Pirate...most can't afford bus/train travel to get to bigger rallies even if there was one organised. 

this is bad about

CLAUSE119 if government was on everyday wages they'd fight for NHS-but theyre not so BUPA for them

pirate1111
Originally Posted by Dame_Ann_Average:
Originally Posted by Pengy:

so in other words close down any hospital they like and privatise the rest which is what this government have wanted all along 

 

we knew this was on the agenda when they were voted in...oh, I beg to differ they weren't voted in  Selfish barstewards, I've never known a government set a country back so many years in so short a time... 

FM
Originally Posted by Enthusiastic Contrafibularities:

 

"Labour shadow health secretary Andy Burnham told MPs Clause 119 was dangerous and wrong."

 

So I take it if Labour are successful in becoming the next government they can repeal this decision.

 

 

 

 

I flipping well hope so...all depends what happens in the next twelve months...I can't see any government being able to re-open hospitals once they have closed.

Dame_Ann_Average
Originally Posted by Dame_Ann_Average:
Originally Posted by Enthusiastic Contrafibularities:

 

"Labour shadow health secretary Andy Burnham told MPs Clause 119 was dangerous and wrong."

 

So I take it if Labour are successful in becoming the next government they can repeal this decision.

 

 

 

 

I flipping well hope so...all depends what happens in the next twelve months...I can't see any government being able to re-open hospitals once they have closed.

 

I am not so sure we will see mass closures. I just don't see how you could close a hospital and then have 10's of thousands of people go elsewhere.

 

Take where I live. We have two large hospitals, one North of the city, the other South West. If either were to close the other would crumble under the sheer volume of patients.

Enthusiastic Contrafibularities
Originally Posted by Enthusiastic Contrafibularities:
Originally Posted by Dame_Ann_Average:
Originally Posted by Enthusiastic Contrafibularities:

 

"Labour shadow health secretary Andy Burnham told MPs Clause 119 was dangerous and wrong."

 

So I take it if Labour are successful in becoming the next government they can repeal this decision.

 

 

 

 

I flipping well hope so...all depends what happens in the next twelve months...I can't see any government being able to re-open hospitals once they have closed.

 

I am not so sure we will see mass closures. I just don't see how you could close a hospital and then have 10's of thousands of people go elsewhere.

 

Take where I live. We have two large hospitals, one North of the city, the other South West. If either were to close the other would crumble under the sheer volume of patients.

I wouldn't put anything past this lot 

FM
Originally Posted by Enthusiastic Contrafibularities:
 

 

I am not so sure we will see mass closures. I just don't see how you could close a hospital and then have 10's of thousands of people go elsewhere.

 

Take where I live. We have two large hospitals, one North of the city, the other South West. If either were to close the other would crumble under the sheer volume of patients.

 

 

I am sure we will see some...we have two main hospitals covering West Cumbria 50 miles apart and I'm smack bang in the middle sort of, we even have to travel to either one of those for a emergency doctor after hours...its very grim to be honest and its certainly deteriorated drastically over the last couple of years. So if one of ours closes we're buggered   

Dame_Ann_Average
Originally Posted by Dame_Ann_Average:
Originally Posted by Pengy:

so in other words close down any hospital they like and privatise the rest which is what this government have wanted all along 

 

we knew this was on the agenda when they were voted in...oh, I beg to differ they weren't voted in  Selfish barstewards, I've never known a government set a country back so many years in so short a time... 

and of course they'll make everyone get insurance (I'm betting Unum) and tough luck to those that are already sick and disabled and the low paid 

 

I'll also wager a lot of these MPs have fingers in the insurance schemes that will be sold to people and I'll also bet that they won't be worth the paper they're written on 

FM
Originally Posted by Enthusiastic Contrafibularities:
Originally Posted by Dame_Ann_Average:
Originally Posted by Enthusiastic Contrafibularities:

 

"Labour shadow health secretary Andy Burnham told MPs Clause 119 was dangerous and wrong."

 

So I take it if Labour are successful in becoming the next government they can repeal this decision.

 

 

 

 

I flipping well hope so...all depends what happens in the next twelve months...I can't see any government being able to re-open hospitals once they have closed.

 

I am not so sure we will see mass closures. I just don't see how you could close a hospital and then have 10's of thousands of people go elsewhere.

 

Take where I live. We have two large hospitals, one North of the city, the other South West. If either were to close the other would crumble under the sheer volume of patients.

I think the danger is more to smaller hospitals. Take Tavistock for instance. It has a small A&E, x-ray and several wards which help as relief for Derriford in Plymouth. If that closes all the rural outlets are in the proverbial.

cologne 1
Originally Posted by Pengy:
 

and of course they'll make everyone get insurance (I'm betting Unum) and tough luck to those that are already sick and disabled and the low paid 

 

I'll also wager a lot of these MPs have fingers in the insurance schemes that will be sold to people and I'll also bet that they won't be worth the paper they're written on 

 

 

nail=head 

Dame_Ann_Average
Originally Posted by Sprout:

It's not the smaller ones Col, as I read it, it's the 'non performing' ones I think 

I'm not sure that fills me with confidence Sprout. As dame says, this Government has destroyed so much in such a short space of time by riding roughshot that it seems wholly possible that they declare smaller hospitals as money bleeders. Pirate is right. There should be a big rally every Sunday in any given city and carry it on until they realise that many, many ppl are fed up.

cologne 1
Originally Posted by cologne 1:
Originally Posted by Sprout:

It's not the smaller ones Col, as I read it, it's the 'non performing' ones I think 

I'm not sure that fills me with confidence Sprout. As dame says, this Government has destroyed so much in such a short space of time by riding roughshot that it seems wholly possible that they declare smaller hospitals as money bleeders. Pirate is right. There should be a big rally every Sunday in any given city and carry it on until they realise that many, many ppl are fed up.

I've said it before. I can see the people of this country rising up. We've all had enough 

FM
Originally Posted by cologne 1:
 

I'm not sure that fills me with confidence Sprout. As dame says, this Government has destroyed so much in such a short space of time by riding roughshot that it seems wholly possible that they declare smaller hospitals as money bleeders. Pirate is right. There should be a big rally every Sunday in any given city and carry it on until they realise that many, many ppl are fed up.

 

 

Problem is Col, everything that they have done is and has been aimed at the poorest or disabled in the country...some can't afford to eat let alone travel to rallies..I see a red mist when I think of the how this country is going, the selfishness of the Thatcher years doesn't even scratch the surface of this heap of society destroying fools.  

Dame_Ann_Average
Originally Posted by Dame_Ann_Average:
Originally Posted by cologne 1:
 

I'm not sure that fills me with confidence Sprout. As dame says, this Government has destroyed so much in such a short space of time by riding roughshot that it seems wholly possible that they declare smaller hospitals as money bleeders. Pirate is right. There should be a big rally every Sunday in any given city and carry it on until they realise that many, many ppl are fed up.

 

 

Problem is Col, everything that they have done is and has been aimed at the poorest or disabled in the country...some can't afford to eat let alone travel to rallies..I see a red mist when I think of the how this country is going, the selfishness of the Thatcher years doesn't even scratch the surface of this heap of society destroying fools.  

I never thought I would say it, but I agree.

cologne 1

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