No, I was questioning this "for some on low incomes it is a good cheap way to share stuff with friends/family".

What is it supposed to be cheaper than?

the telephone for one... postal costs for another.. loads more but the main thing is  people can keep in daily contact much more than they could without the internet for much cheaper..the other thing is that the initial point I was making was unless you have actually tried FB you shouldn't rely on negative articles only..

computers are no longer luxury items in homes, they are more or less essentials.. especially for homes with children for school work.. and for people living alone far from family and friends or support networks..

your post came across frankly as extremely haughty, bigoted towards those on lower incomes and ignorant.. if you don't want people to misconstrue you then you need to learn how to correspond with people in a better manner and make it clearer exactly what your point is.. writing isn't all about grammar and spelling you know. . plus I wasn't talking about people on low incomes having every puter gadget going, just a computer,  which you can get cheap second hand when people upgrade, with internet access...  which is normally part of a telephone line offers nowadays..  unless you consider having a phone line a luxury the poorer of us shouldn't have either...

Yesterday I felt a bit bad at my reaction when I closed down [which I do early evenings now to to save on electricity]  thinking maybe I was overreacting due to being in not such a good mood but to see others agree with me tells me maybe I wasn't

I'd be interested to know what your acceptable list of items allowed in a low income household is and if they are allowed even one 'luxury' 

ps being one of these low income people I have a car. I had it when I was working. .it is now 37 yrs old and I've owned it for 22 of those yrs and it is the only way I can get out when I need too. .is that allowed?

Olly, I agree with the whole thing, but have trimmed your waffle () to highlight this part. Phoning relatives/friends in other countries can be hugely expensive, B spends a fortune on phone cards to call home and he only calls once, maybe twice, a week I'm not saying, and I don't think anyone is really, that FB is the be all and end all of communication, but it does allow his to keep regular contact with his siblings and see photos of them plus his nieces and nephews growing up. Plane tickets are also expensive so he can only visit once a year and seeing the pics he doesn't feel like he is missing out so much...

Well it's definitely cheaper than phoning regularly or going to visit people with associated travel costs. I communicate (mostly by pm) to my sis who lives abroad most days and other relatives and friends who live either abroad or a good distant away often and get to see their pics and what they're up to etc. etc. It would cost us a fortune to do that without  the internet, (sometimes fb, sometimes skype etc.) And, of course, free wi fi is everywhere these days, not just internet-cafes and libraries: particularly useful for those of us who use their phones for internet access. I'm not on a low income but can see the advantages and savings for those who both are and aren't and, of course, those who are housebound. And as I said earlier, fb is probably more private than here, at least the whole www can't nosey in on conversations!

And I'm really, really glad you did. I don't like change - that avi is the one I associate with you.

Now if Baz would only go back to her hula bear I all will be right with the world.

As for the nutty/sprout - I don't even try to keep tabs.

This ^^^^ says it better than my waffle as does supes

the only real issue i have with facebook, is that it can be really addicting 

Tell you what Soozy, I will go back to it on Dec 1st ...as an Xmas pressie to you

Awwwwwwww - that'll be lovely 

Saz, if I use the phone rather than the net to chat abroad I go through phonecheap. Don't know if B is aware of it, if not, here's the link http://www.phonecheap.co.uk/rates.php

Okay, I've been trying to get my ahead around how your post may have been misconstrued Fluffs, (as your post stating that you couldn't really care really didn't help matters at all in that regard.) I think I may have eventually got there?! So, when you asked the question: 'where do these low income people get the money to afford computers and internet access in the first place?' perhaps you meant that many wouldn't be able to get the money for them, rather than querying, in those cases where they had, where that money had come from? Is that correct? 

See, I don't see using the internet as SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper.

POST: it only costs when you use it, but it IS somewhat inconvenient if you want a conversation of any relevance.

Telephone: You pay line rental all the time, regardless of how often you make a call and only pay call charges IF you make a call. Certanly there is the slight inconvenience of the person you wish to speak to has to be there.

Internet: You need a computer (which costs), you need an ISP(which is a permanent cost), you need a phone line( which is a permanent cost). The ISP cost and phoneline costs have to be paid no matter how often you are on the internet.

I'm not saying that anyone here is or has said that FB is the be all or end all of communication, but I have seen it touted as such.

there are such things as PAYG internet dongles so you don't need a phone line or an ISP...  you can use a mobile phone to connect to the internet too ..either on monthly contract or PAYG..

there are people out there recycling  older computers  for free

Post costs a lot if you are sending off photo's regularly that you have had to print out or pay to have developed...  prices rise as the weight of the envelopes go up..

and no one said it was significantly cheaper just that is can and does work out cheaper for a lot of people to keep in regular contact with F&F over a period of time..

Thanks Supes, I'll pass it on. He uses those talk home cards at the minute at a fiver a pop There are lots of cheap deals advertised in the tube etc but they never seem to include Lebanon (that does though, so I'll show him )

Again, depends where you are posting to - there is no guarantee that post will get to B's family just using normal post. To guarantee it would mean using a courier, I checked it out when he wanted to send some presents for his nephew/nieces... £50+

Saz, my sis doesn't have a postal address nor do any other residential properties where she lives. They can get a PO box for stuff to be delivered to the post office in the village but it's pretty expensive and anyway there aren't any vacant atm. I sometimes used to send stuff to a business address of a friend of hers but lost count of the number of parcels that got lost or arrived about a year later! Anyway, why the heck would I want to get a load of pics printed off and then post them to her when I can just send them all with the click of one button from my iphotos?

This discussion is getting a bit silly imo, I have a lappy and an iphone, I have wi-fi, (I'd have them if there was fb or not,) seems to me it'd be a bit daft to not take advantage of what they have to offer which is, quick, convenient and saves me paying out additional money on texts, phone calls, postage etc. 

We use Skype via our pc to talk to and see our friends abroad, it's free but the other person needs to have it also.

Me too YR, it's a great way to keep in touch isn't it?

It is Supes unlike a phone it's nice to see them as well as talk. So far I've not been caught out wearing a dressing gown lol, and neither have they

Oh I have, plenty of times, mostly I couldn't care less, but sometimes my webcam seems to mysteriously not be working

strangely enough that happens to mine at times hehe

I'm sorry if I too have misunderstood some of what was being said but it seemed to me that it was being suggested that low income people might not be able to afford other means of communication, but that the internet was a viable alternative for them. So what I was trying to find out was that if non-internet communication couldn't be afforded then how was internet communication any better as, to me, the costs didn't seem to be greatly different.

I think it depends on so many variables Fluffs: how you connect e.g. dongle, phone, payg etc. and how often; if you piggy back on others wifi, (like my student neighbours did); what you pay if you do have  wi-fi, (v variable by area,) what you would have spent on phone calls and texts to e.g. family and friends abroad; what your priorities are for the money you do have, and, of course; if you do have internet access by whatever means, what you then 'save' by using that to connect, rather than texts and phonecalls. Seems like an impossible 'one fits all' equation to me