I understand that but sadly Ditty, the recidivist rate is higher within the 16-24 year olds than the older prisoners. They are given so many chances before they are locked up, you wouldn't believe it  - but there is an ever growing number of young people for whom drugs, stealing and assaulting people is a way of life. They think their way is right and show no interest in reforming. There comes a time, when punishment is needed, IMO.

...............I couldn't agree more. So many chances are given over and over to the young offenders. Sometimes a short, sharp shock (along with redirection,education) would be better than giving them endless chances!

I swear I do get what you are saying Yogi..    & I can think of plenty of nasty little gits in this town that your description above fits to a tee...  

I am all for a bit of boot camp action for the under 25's.   PROPER BOOT CAMP!   perhaps if after boot camp they reoffended again they were signed up to do national service.

At least then, there would be a chance that they would come out different.    Whilst the current system, even with prison stripped back to lock up & bare essentials, won't change them.

Also, (& please don't interpret this as my condoning it in any way), I think you are right when you say "there is an ever growing number of young people for whom drugs, stealing and assaulting people is a way of life"  but sadly I think its the only world they know...    

I am all for a bit of boot camp action for the under 25's.   PROPER BOOT CAMP!   perhaps if after boot camp they reoffended again they were signed up to do national service.

At least then, there would be a chance that they would come out different.    Whilst the current system, even with prison stripped back to lock up & bare essentials, won't change them.

Also, (& please don't interpret this as my condoning it in any way), I think you are right when you say "there is an ever growing number of young people for whom drugs, stealing and assaulting people is a way of life"  but sadly I think its the only world they know...    

I don't think we are that far apart on this subject, Ditty.

    Yeah..   I think maybe you're right..  

One of MrD's old friends (I think they've lost touch now) worked in the Prison Service (at authority admin kinda level..   he was a Project Manager)..    & I remember him saying that the punishment vs reform debate just went round & round in circles..     cos when the reform side heard the word "Punish" that is all they heard..   & when the "Punishment" side heard the word reform, that is all they heard..       and yet what was being said on both sides was not actually that different..   but neither side listened long enough to realise it!

(I doubt he still works there..    he was as jaded with the public sector as I was )