yes...he got a brownie point from me for that...about time more people stood up and called it a load of twaddle

Makes you wonder what Dave'd say if he was there

He would have bloody wiped the floor with mad monk Dave

I love John,


His reaction to Nikki getting a part of her task wrong was so funny.

 Fab speech by a fab man! 

Actually I think religion is a very personal thing - Johns rant is no different to Daves preaching. A respectful discussion is good whereby both sides listen but IMO John is as bad as the most fervent evangelist. No one should brow beat another over their beliefs. It's personal.

You make a fair point there Soozy....

For once I agree with you. I agree with John's take on religion but disagree with him basically shouting his beliefs at her with no interest in what she had to say.

Good point, I agree with that Soozy...

Completely 100% agree with you - an atheist on a rant is as bad as a fervent believer on a rant.

I thought he was spot on and as for ranting I think its just the way of many an old bloke, seems most hit 60+ and there volume button breaks and noone decides to fix it....

But to be fair religious people have been ramming their beliefs down peoples throats for centuries.

We had 10 weeks of Dave forcing his religious beliefs on us and he came second.  Pay back's a bitch.

 exactly

I agreed with every word

You've changed your avatar - I didn't recognise you!

I agree Soozy and that's unusual

He is a wise man.

I see he's gone all silent again ...a couple of rants like the last time ..then non communication
  Get him out

Keep Coolio in  

...

Very true Soozy, good post

Seven years to go! *rubs hand together in glee*

religion is NOT  a personal thing...don't be daft.  It's a system that brainwashes and controls the minds and behaviour of millions of people....it needs to be challenged.

If, for example, the Tory party started telling us that gays are evil and that women are second class citizens, or not to wear condoms  etc...there would be uproar and most people claiming to support the Tory party would be challenged on their allegiances and beliefs....rightly so!

why should religion or people who adhere to its beliefs be any different?

One agrees with Dance Settee. :nods vigorously:

Good points DS, but if someone makes the personal choice to adhere to a belief system, it is just that, thier personal choice. John by all means can and should challenge anything he does not agree with, but I hated the way he had to belittle and insult her to make his points seem valid. A good debater would have challenged with respect and a lot more dignity, rather than use it an opportunity to massage his own ego.

John was no better than the most fervent religious believer ramming thier opinions and beliefs down our throats.

I said in another thread, JM knew what he was doing going hell for leather about Monk Dave and Makosi's beliefs...I would bet 50 grand had either of them been Muslim, Jew or Hindu, John would have kept shctum....Because he knew there would be uproar....He's far from stupid.

The trouble is that religion and spirituality are often confused. Religion is as you say, potentially harmful and brain washing.
However a person's faith or spirituality , no matter what their "god" is, should be respected as it is personal to them and as long as they keep it that way and not inflict their views on others then they should be allowed to think what they like.

You see this is the hypocrisy that gets me...

Uproar because people don't feel they have the freedom to criticise the non- christian faiths,

Yet uproar when people exercise their freedom to question christianity.


you've got to laugh

i've no problem with people believing there are fairies at the bottom of their garden.   As long as they don't start forming gangs and start telling me to wear fairy wings and dance round a mushroom !

DS, Where was the uproar yesterday? Sorry confused.

Exactly!
And if people want to believe that, providing they don't make us dance around mushrooms, then who are we to stop them?

i'm referring to  people who get miffed when John criticises religion

oh i wouldn't...but if they wanted to talk to me about how wonderful it is to be a  prancing fairy, i might tell them they were a nutter

Who were they? Yesterday there were a few who aplauded him and others like myself who stated they didn't like the way he went about putting his points across, I don't remember anyone being miffed because he challenged her beliefs.

he shoulod be allowed to air his beliefs.. good on him

I agree Soozy