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I don't think words like nigger or Paki should be directed at, nor accepted by anyone, regardless of whether you are of that gene pool or not. My son is mixed race, and he used to get called nigger at school. He was taught this was totally unacceptable. Then he listened to rap music and heard it bandied about in abundance. I spent AGES trying to explain how it was acceptable within some circles but not others. After what seemed like an eternity, he came to the conclusion that it was pretty stupid and that it only segregates ethnic minorities, not encouraging us to all live as one and respect each other.

As for old Brucie's comments, that may well have been the case 20 or 30 years ago, but also there was a hell of a lot more open racism about back then, I know people in their 40's who were beaten up in the late 60's and early 70's just for being the wrong colour. Thankfully, times have changed (not fully though)

How are our kids/the next generation supposed to live in a multi-cultural society when there are still those from other races who want to 'stick together'?
Karma_
Karma 
Reference:
don't think words like nigger or Paki should be directed at, nor accepted by anyone, regardless of whether you are of that gene pool or not. My son is mixed race, and he used to get called nigger at school. He was taught this was totally unacceptable. Then he listened to rap music and heard it bandied about in abundance. I spent AGES trying to explain how it was acceptable within some circles but not others. After what seemed like an eternity, he came to the conclusion that it was pretty stupid and that it only segregates ethnic minorities, not encouraging us to all live as one and respect each other. As for old Brucie's comments, that may well have been the case 20 or 30 years ago, but also there was a hell of a lot more open racism about back then, I know people in their 40's who were beaten up in the late 60's and early 70's just for being the wrong colour. Thankfully, times have changed (not fully though) How are our kids/the next generation supposed to live in a multi-cultural society when there are still those from other races who want to 'stick together'?
 Karma thank god for the voice of reason
robertsam
Reference:  Karma
I spent AGES trying to explain how it was acceptable within some circles but not others
The whole N word scandal with Emily on Big Brother raised this in our house.   Like you I spent ages trying to explain to the kids that, yes its used in rap music, yes Charley Uchea has referred to herself as one in the house, but that they must never ever use it.   Even if their friends do.   Same with the P word.

Finally, I think they accepted it.   I KNOW they don't use those words... but the whole rap culture really doesn't help us educate our kids to not offend.

I am married to a man who is half chinese.... chink is an offensive term to him... kind of.   My daughters best friend at school was also chinese... but her and her chinese friends all referred to themselves as chinks, and would validate my daughters inclusion into their group by saying she had a 'link to the chink' (i.e. her stepfather).

I mean... I was bashing my head on the wall!   How on earth do you deal with this... in the end I begged her to just not use the word... though I suspect she does.

Oh, and Re: my hubby.  Over the years I have come to realise that he enjoys being outraged by use of perceived offensive terms in respect of his ethnicity.   But equally, there are times when he doesn't.   It depends what hat he has decided to put on.  

In my opinion he undermines it all as well!
Dirtyprettygirlthing
Reference:
So far, this thread seems to be pretty civil, so I'll keep it open for the moment. Please keep it civil.
Hi Lori.  Can you say what it's like in America without compromising your moderator status?  Obviously, the UK has a cultural history with more immigration from particular part of the world.  America has a different history.  When we say 'Asian', we almost always mean 'South Asian', either Indian or Pakistani or Bangladeshi, whereas I guess 'Asian' in America means Japanese or Korean or possibly Chinese.

In the UK, the word 'oriental' hasn't, as far as I know, reached the same sort of position as 'paki'.  It simply means 'far eastern' ... from our geographical position.  However, I've been really, really jumped on in the past on newgroups with mostly American contributors for using the word which I'm told is very offensive.  Is that so?  Also, is 'Paki' offensive over there?  I'm not justifying its use here as it's definitely an offensive word because of trouble during our integration in the 1970s and 1980s, I'm just interested.

For the record in these sort of threads, I'm a fan of multiculturalism, despite its problems, and I'm very pleased we have had South Asian immigration in particular.  I think we're a better place for it.  As an atheist, I'm less of a fan of the clashing religious views we have now but my liberalism mostly overrides that.
FM
Reference:
I don't think words like nigger or Paki should be directed at, nor accepted by anyone, regardless of whether you are of that gene pool or not. My son is mixed race, and he used to get called nigger at school. He was taught this was totally unacceptable. Then he listened to rap music and heard it bandied about in abundance. I spent AGES trying to explain how it was acceptable within some circles but not others. After what seemed like an eternity, he came to the conclusion that it was pretty stupid and that it only segregates ethnic minorities, not encouraging us to all live as one and respect each other. As for old Brucie's comments, that may well have been the case 20 or 30 years ago, but also there was a hell of a lot more open racism about back then, I know people in their 40's who were beaten up in the late 60's and early 70's just for being the wrong colour. Thankfully, times have changed (not fully though) How are our kids/the next generation supposed to live in a multi-cultural society when there are still those from other races who want to 'stick together'?
Karma

My kids are mixed race too and my 9 year olds get very confused sometimes when they have been racially abused because they do not actually understand the meaning of the words used to offend them.

The N word is a nightmare to explain because as you say, it's used in Rap and not really deemed as offensive but in reality, in day to day life it is one of the most horrible and offensive words I know. 

Most people know that if you call someone the P or the N word, it will be taken offensively and imo if you say it to someone then you have to suffer the consequences of the action that may be taken against you for doing so.

Im not particularly PC about anything and I think sometimes things are taken way out of proportion and think over reaction to certain things these days is rife, but you have to be pretty damn naive if you think it is acceptable to call someone a paki considering the past behind the word.

Re the kids calling themselves this, then yes I do believe they should be told it's wrong and the parents should sit them down and explain why.

The never ending race debate!  It'll never have a simple conclusion for some.
Lacey
Reference:
Obviously the P word is a horrible and offensive word, but some Pakistani kids who I know liked to use that word to describe themselves in a jokey way and I felt uncomfortable but hid it, now the N word has been used by some kids due to influence in the rap videos or hearing it on the streets or whatever and have used terms like that to joke with each other but not nice terms to use, it wouldn't be nice if used to insult and they would be upset but there was one time when an offensive word was used in a nasty way by one kid but the person who it was said to used that word before messing around with their mates then they cried wolf that it insulted them I did feel sorry for them in a way as it's not nice at all but I also felt it was hypocritical of them.

I hate both the n word and p word.Because of their history(and my experience and interpretation of them),they should not be used as descriptors.However,I do believe the 'N' word has been 'reclaimed' by young blacks in Hip Hop culture..but I'd still feel very uncomfortable hearing it used even tho I understand within that context it's not a racist slur.I'm guessing young Asian kids are doing the same with the 'P' word.
With everything it's context .
M
Hi, Daniel:

When we say "Asian", we mean either Korean, Japanese, or Chinese.  My daughter-in-law, who is Korean, and was adopted as an infant, often uses the "DWA" term (Driving While Asian), but she's not tied to her heritage at all.  However, she thinks she can get away with it.

The term "Oriental" is viewed as offensive, for sure.

I'm not sure I've heard Paki over here--I had to be told it was offensive to you.
Lori

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