quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
When the Russians cut your gas off in a few years time, don't forget that you can burn doors and staircases for fuel.

F'sure the future will be a time of fuel geopolitics but Russia is not our only supplier of gas.

It was interesting to see John Major on the Andrew Marr Show on Sunday. For all the 'little grey man' slurs on the guy he is quite an astute politician and he reckons, which I know to be a fact, that we are in a worse state in this country now than we have ever been in the lifetime of anybody living. So much for Brown's reputation as an able Chancellor.

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Garage Joe:

When the Russians cut your gas off in a few years time, don't forget that you can burn doors and staircases for fuel.

What has that got to do with the Tories?

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:
It was interesting to see John Major on the Andrew Marr Show on Sunday. For all the 'little grey man' slurs on the guy he is quite an astute politician and he reckons, which I know to be a fact, that we are in a worse state in this country now than we have ever been in the lifetime of anybody living. So much for Brown's reputation as an able Chancellor.

I saw that! I thought John Major came over really very well. Actually, most ex Prime Ministers do. They know what it's all about and afterwards they can say what they really think. I couldn't stop thinking Of Edwina though.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
I couldn't stop thinking Of Edwina though.

oh do not go there, spitting image with norma was bad enough

Labour won't win if Brown is still in charge. They could win with a youngish dynamic leader but he/she would need at least 18 months in the job.

quote:

Originally posted by paace:
Labour won't win if Brown is still in charge. They could win with a youngish dynamic leader but he/she would need at least 18 months in the job.

What is even scarier is that Ed Balls might get the job. I really would be very worried about this country if he became leader.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
Indeed! People! :excited:
The vast majority of industry was removed by the arch-hoond Thatcher. Her disciples Blair and Brown have done nothing to replace any of it.

I lived in Consett for 3 years, Lancaster for another 3, and I come from North Merseyside so I know what the impact generally was in the North of England. What Brown has done in the City and in the housing market deliberately to maintain his reputation for growth/prosperity and continue raking in tax revenues for his pet projects has condemned us to another Thatcher-like period of austerity for one or two decades. The guy is a turd. Severe and sustained cuts are inevitable whatever government follows. Brown is a barefaced liar over future expenditure and budgets and people who think we can get away with no cuts now are utter fools.

Consett, or the Brown town, was particularly hard hit. With Lancaster being top left I'm not aware of what heavy industry was lost.

quote:

Originally posted by luxor:

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Garage Joe:

When the Russians cut your gas off in a few years time, don't forget that you can burn doors and staircases for fuel.

What has that got to do with the Tories?

If we accept that the Tories are responsible for shutting down the Top Right coal industry, a lot.
Forget what that George Monbiot idiot says in The Guardian, we can make gas, petrol, and chemicals from coal.
The good news is Leccy and I are walking on megatons of it.
Now do you want to rely on other countries for your energy, or your loyal flat capped, whippet smoking, North Easteners. You had better come to a quick decision, because those of us who know this technology backwards are starting to die out.

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

quote:

Originally posted by luxor:

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Garage Joe:

When the Russians cut your gas off in a few years time, don't forget that you can burn doors and staircases for fuel.

What has that got to do with the Tories?

If we accept that the Tories are responsible for shutting down the Top Right coal industry, a lot.
Forget what that George Monbiot idiot says in The Guardian, we can make gas, petrol, and chemicals from coal.
The good news is Leccy and I are walking on megatons of it.
Now do you want to rely on other countries for your energy, or your loyal flat capped, whippet smoking, North Easteners. You had better come to a quick decision, because those of us who know this technology backwards are starting to die out.

You mean South easterners, Aberdeen is South to me.
Nuclear energy is the only way forward, everything else is just time wasting and eventually we will go Nuclear.

Quite frankly anyone would be better than this bunch! They've made a complete pig's ear out of everything they've touched... from taking us into the Iraq War to the 10p tax.

quote:

Originally posted by Baz:
10p tax.

and the 50% tax

quote:

Well, even though I'm a LibDem, I'll be voting Tory at the election. I want the current executive out as soon as possible. Their legacy will make Thatcher's look like a picnic in the park and their current scorched earth policy for leaving government will completely trash the current generation of school/university leavers. A pox on the whole vile, nasty, evil lot.



Is this a geographical thing, because your post makes no sense to anyone North of Thirsk.

No I thinks its nostalgia - remember the good old days - 15% interest rates, 4m unemployed, poll tax, ah I remember it well

It would also be interesting to know how many of Daves 'fans' who post here are old enough to even remember life under thatcher?
I am 56 and in MY view its still recent history.
All I will say is, be careful what you wish for.

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
It would also be interesting to know how many of Daves 'fans' who post here are old enough to even remember life under thatcher?
I am 56 and in MY view its still recent history.
All I will say is, be careful what you wish for.

I remember Maggie, I also remember the state of the country before she took over, much like it is now.
We need another Maggie.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

The vast majority of industry was removed by the arch-hoond Thatcher. Her disciples Blair and Brown have done nothing to replace any of it.

and there was me thinking that the industry was destroyed by the unions going on strike so much that it became wiser to have those products made overseas, i'm sure that it was the hated tories that pumped millions into training and development in the areas they unions destroyed.

OR because, due to the strength of the trades unions and their successes in securing DECENT pay and working conditions for the British workers,
the greedy capitalistic bosses decided that, in order to maintain their profits they would move production to such places as China or India where such annoyances as human rights and a fair days pay for a fair days work weren't
such an impediment to their ever increasing wealth and GREED
I KNOW I have been out there I have seen first hand the conditions that some of these poor souls have to endure just to survive,
have no doubts whatsoever, if it WASNT for the unions the bastards would have US working under those kind of conditlons in a feckin heartbeat.

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
It would also be interesting to know how many of Daves 'fans' who post here are old enough to even remember life under thatcher?
I am 56 and in MY view its still recent history.
All I will say is, be careful what you wish for.

Older than you and you don't need long memories to think back how this country has deteriorated since Labour came to power.

quote:

Originally posted by luxor:

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
It would also be interesting to know how many of Daves 'fans' who post here are old enough to even remember life under thatcher?
I am 56 and in MY view its still recent history.
All I will say is, be careful what you wish for.

I remember Maggie, I also remember the state of the country before she took over, much like it is now.
We need another Maggie.

exactly

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
It would also be interesting to know how many of Daves 'fans' who post here are old enough to even remember life under thatcher?
I am 56 and in MY view its still recent history.
All I will say is, be careful what you wish for.

Older than you and you don't need long memories to think back how this country has deteriorated since Labour came to power.

Not where I am from it aint, even NOW more people are in work than under the bitch, there are vastly more opportunities for people like me to improve their lives, the city is cleaner and shows the benefits of all the much needed investment that it was denied (cause its not south of Watford) under the Tories.

I think Labour have just 'levelled' the field a bit, those of us who suffered under the fist of the bitch find life a tad easier now than it was then, those who did alright under her have had to tighten their belts a bit, and thats where the majority of Daves fans are coming from.

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
I think Labour have just 'levelled' the field a bit, those of us who suffered under the fist of the bitch find life a tad easier now than it was then, those who did alright under her have had to tighten their belts a bit, and thats where the majority of Daves fans are coming from.

problem is that tony + gordo have f*cked the country up so badly this time that its going to hurt everyone top to bottom trying to fix it, at least the unions only crapped in their own back yard and in most cases only hurt themselves and their own members when the country had to fix what they had broken.

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
I think Labour have just 'levelled' the field a bit, those of us who suffered under the fist of the bitch find life a tad easier now than it was then, those who did alright under her have had to tighten their belts a bit, and thats where the majority of Daves fans are coming from.

Exactly


.

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
OR because, due to the strength of the trades unions and their successes in securing DECENT pay and working conditions for the British workers, the greedy capitalistic bosses decided that, in order to maintain their profits they would move production to such places as China or India where such annoyances as human rights and a fair days pay for a fair days work weren't such an impediment to their ever increasing wealth and GREED I KNOW I have been out there I have seen first hand the conditions that some of these poor souls have to endure just to survive, have no doubts whatsoever, if it WASNT for the unions the bastards would have US working under those kind of conditlons in a feckin heartbeat.

You're decades and decades out of date with your Marxist thinking. Almost all big companies are owned by shareholders and many of those shareholders are us through our pension schemes or directly with share portfolios. Greedy bosses are employees themselves but beholden to a board of directors who ware beholden to share holders. Look at Rose, the boss of M&S who is being pulled over the coals at the moment by powerful shareholders. Your Marxist thinking might imagine greedy bosses owning the means of production and the poor workers being oppressed in some late 19th century way but I'm afraid it's bollocks. Many workers own the means of production and we benefit from ours and other workers' labour.

quote:

Originally posted by old hippy guy:
It would also be interesting to know how many of Daves 'fans' who post here are old enough to even remember life under thatcher?
I am 56 and in MY view its still recent history.
All I will say is, be careful what you wish for.

I'm nearly 62 and I remember the time before Mrs Thatcher very well, I remember strikes, power cuts and total chaos, and I used to be a Labour supporter!

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
You're decades and decades out of date with your Marxist thinking. Almost all big companies are owned by shareholders and many of those shareholders are us through our pension schemes or directly with share portfolios. Greedy bosses are employees themselves but beholden to a board of directors who ware beholden to share holders. Look at Rose, the boss of M&S who is being pulled over the coals at the moment by powerful shareholders. Your Marxist thinking might imagine greedy bosses owning the means of production and the poor workers being oppressed in some late 19th century way but I'm afraid it's bollocks. Many workers own the means of production and we benefit from ours and other workers' labour.

Just popping in to say that Marx got it absolutely spot on 100% correct.
He predicted that unbridled capitalism would eat itself and it has.

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

Just popping in to say that Marx got it absolutely spot on 100% correct.
He predicted that unbridled capitalism would eat itself and it has.

As opposed to communism which is doing so well!

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
Just popping in to say that Marx got it absolutely spot on 100% correct.
He predicted that unbridled capitalism would eat itself and it has.

Except he also predicted that the inherent contradictions in capitalism would result in the working class rising up, overthrowing the regime, and taking control of the means of production. Engels saw this as throwing off a false consciousness. The problem is, we don't really have much of a false consciousness, the means of production is not owned by a separate and distinct class from the working class, and we've bought into the advantages of capitalism. In short, Marx had a great understanding of economic processes but he was pretty crap at predicting what would happen. Also, we've been here before in 1711 during the South Sea Bubble. Capitalism is not dead and it's pretty resilient to shocks like this. Marx also profoundly misunderstood human nature, which is probably why true socialism has never come about and almost certainly never will.