quote:Originally posted by vodka jellyfish:
there's a limit to how many times you can bang your head against a brick wall, when people keep twisting your words
You're still sore about the cricket whites thing, aren't you?
You're still sore about the cricket whites thing, aren't you?
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by vodka jellyfish:
there's a limit to how many times you can ban your head against a brick wall, when people keep twisting your words
You're still sore about the cricket whites thing, aren't you?
you quoted my typo 
i do look rather spiffing in a white v-neck jumper 
quote:Originally posted by vodka jellyfish:
No I didn't!
quote:Originally posted by vodka jellyfish:
there's a limit to how many times you can ban your head against a brick wall, when people keep twisting your words
I can understand that.....but it still comes down to YOUR choice to continue an argument or not....you are silencing yourself, no one is silencing you....they're just arguing better
...and that's not the fault of a sinister "brigade", but people do have problems accepting personal responsibility for such things, so it's easier to attribute blame elsewhere.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:
I like all that and I see what's in the first paragraph quite often. When I lived in County Durham, I heard blatant and unashamed racism spoken openly in pubs, and regularly. Opened my eyes, for sure.
Funnily enough, the first time I encountered such blatant racism was when i moved to live two miles from the County Durham border too
I say we hire a "PC brigade bus" and go flood the place with lentils
![Jeggo (Ben`s Buddy/Member of JJ`s LS]](https://www.gagajoyjoy.com/displayAvatar/user/1266637396778127/fod/1266637396796063/imageType/SQUARE_THUMBNAIL/fried%20egg%204.jpg "Jeggo (Ben`s Buddy/Member of JJ`s LS]"){kind=small}
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Most people seem to accept that discrimination is wrong but there's a vagueness there because it's unjustificable discrimination that is wrong because it is not fair, where fair broadly means equal.
"Its unjustifiable discrimination that is wrong" ..... I`m glad you said that because `discrimination` has become a derogatory term in recent years and the ability to discriminate is a very necessary for survival. Our daily lives depend on being able to distinguish between different objects, people, situations etc. We need to be able to discriminate. And with this goes the ability to use past experience and knowledge to categorise and put people/things into groups. I know there are experiments by the Equal Opps brigade that try to disprove this, but in my experience I am generally right about the categories I put people into and this in turn protects me in my daily life.
In those situations, I personally start to question stuff because there's discrimination in that position and I want to know if people are aware of it and if it can be justified. That's not political correctness I'm using there, it's looking for consistency and following arguments through from our other shared values, such as a belief in equal treatment for similar attributes.
Sorry - meant to delete poster`s last paragraph.
quote:Originally posted by Jeggo:
"Its unjustifiable discrimination that is wrong" ..... I`m glad you said that because `discrimination` has become a derogatory term in recent years and the ability to discriminate is a very necessary for survival. Our daily lives depend on being able to distinguish between different objects, people, situations etc. We need to be able to discriminate. And with this goes the ability to use past experience and knowledge to categorise and put people/things into groups. I know there are experiments by the Equal Opps brigade that try to disprove this, but in my experience I am generally right about the categories I put people into and this in turn protects me in my daily life.
Hurrah! Someone who sees the distinction! I often drop in that stereotypes are not necessarily bad things but never get challenged on it.
Earlier in the thread, someone moaned about a drive for equality, thinking it meant a drive for uniformity. Again, the clarity of the concept has gone if 'equality of opportunity' or 'similar treatment for similar attributes' has come to mean uniformity of people.
quote:Originally posted by DanceSettee:
I say we hire a "PC brigade bus" and go flood the place with lentils
I don't live far from Langley Mill in Derbyshire. We could drop off a few tofu bakes around there too, for much the same reason.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by DanceSettee:
I say we hire a "PC brigade bus" and go flood the place with lentils
I don't live far from Langley Mill in Derbyshire. We could drop off a few tofu bakes around there too, for much the same reason.
I will have to be Tuesday I'm afraid....Sunday's my day for sitting in a pub in Wales moaning about how we don't like being called British
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by Jeggo:
"Its unjustifiable discrimination that is wrong" ..... I`m glad you said that because `discrimination` has become a derogatory term in recent years and the ability to discriminate is a very necessary for survival. Our daily lives depend on being able to distinguish between different objects, people, situations etc. We need to be able to discriminate. And with this goes the ability to use past experience and knowledge to categorise and put people/things into groups. I know there are experiments by the Equal Opps brigade that try to disprove this, but in my experience I am generally right about the categories I put people into and this in turn protects me in my daily life.
Hurrah! Someone who sees the distinction! I often drop in that stereotypes are not necessarily bad things but never get challenged on it.
Earlier in the thread, someone moaned about a drive for equality, thinking it meant a drive for uniformity. Again, the clarity of the concept has gone if 'equality of opportunity' or 'similar treatment for similar attributes' has come to mean uniformity of people.
Yep - you put it better than me.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by Rekaf:quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by vodka jellyfish:
saying "i'm proud to be british" is tantamount to saying "i'm a racist, homophobic, witch-burning nazi f*ck"
Can't argue with that.
*runs*
see, you can learn a lot about yourself on this forum..........
You can! I'm part of an ilk, apparently. Of what is not entirely clear yet.
ah, ilk....now that could be a problem because ilk is in fact a part of the word milk which is in fact white used to be seen as good..... which isn't pink ....tut tut...racist and homophobic in 3 letters......
quote:Originally posted by DanceSettee:quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by DanceSettee:
I say we hire a "PC brigade bus" and go flood the place with lentils
I don't live far from Langley Mill in Derbyshire. We could drop off a few tofu bakes around there too, for much the same reason.
I will have to be Tuesday I'm afraid....Sunday's my day for sitting in a pub in Wales moaning about how we don't like being called British
The talk of tofu reminds me of the first ever Uk BB evictee, Sada. Nommed for her insistance of Tofu in the shopping list if I remeber rightly. A great shame, as I found her one of the most interesting characters that year!
quote:Originally posted by DanceSettee:quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by DanceSettee:
I say we hire a "PC brigade bus" and go flood the place with lentils
I don't live far from Langley Mill in Derbyshire. We could drop off a few tofu bakes around there too, for much the same reason.
I will have to be Tuesday I'm afraid....Sunday's my day for sitting in a pub in Wales moaning about how we don't like being called British
Being Welsh and being called English is worse.
quote:Originally posted by vodka jellyfish:
"i'm proud to be british" might mean just that, nothing more, nothing less. BUT political correctness has given that phrase so many sinister connotations that, these days, saying "i'm proud to be british" is tantamount to saying "i'm a racist, homophobic, witch-burning nazi f*ck".
Actually, I think you'll find it's the BNP and the NF who are to blame for that - not political correctness.
quote:Originally posted by PeterCat:quote:Originally posted by vodka jellyfish:
"i'm proud to be british" might mean just that, nothing more, nothing less. BUT political correctness has given that phrase so many sinister connotations that, these days, saying "i'm proud to be british" is tantamount to saying "i'm a racist, homophobic, witch-burning nazi f*ck".
Actually, I think you'll find it's the BNP and the NF who are to blame for that - not political correctness.
that's a fair point mr cat
quote:Originally posted by DanceSettee:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Daniel J*:
I like all that and I see what's in the first paragraph quite often. When I lived in County Durham, I heard blatant and unashamed racism spoken openly in pubs, and regularly. Opened my eyes, for sure.
Funnily enough, the first time I encountered such blatant racism was when i moved to live two miles from the County Durham border too
QUOTE]
Indeed we are all terrible.
Just for a laugh Leccy and I like to walk through Spennymoor dressed up as Sir Oswald Mosley and Diana Guiness. The blond wig really suits me.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Imagine herding cats. Glance away and they're off in every direction.
That's why they're so great
quote:Originally posted by Garage Joe:
Indeed we are all terrible.
Just for a laugh Leccy and I like to walk through Spennymoor dressed up as Sir Oswald Mosley and Diana Guiness. The blond wig really suits me.
Hahahaha
quote:Originally posted by fracas:quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:
It's not like Orwell's Newspeak at all. There isn't a move to limit the dictionary, or reduce the total number of words, or remove nuance by getting rid of synonyms and antomyms. Orwell simply understood the power of words and the theory behind changing the way people think about stuff by changing labels, and put it into a totalitarian backdrop.
So, it was bad in 1984, but it's entirely OK now? It is, if you think about it, a way to control thought. Open to abuse and open to question, rightly so.
*dusts this off*
You make it sound really sinister. Let me give a marketing example of the power of words: "We have a new, really cheap product called X" or the much preferred "We have a new, low-cost product called X". The marketing people are avoiding one word which triggers a particular view of product X and using another to describe the same product at the same price but triggering a different response. It's not really a way to thought control in an Orwellian stylee, is it? It just understands the way the mind seems to work. Orwell's 1984 is (partly) about controlling language in its entirety for a particular purpose, not influencing approaches with one word over another.
The psychobabble for this sort of stuff is framing. It's the core of neuro-linguistic programming and it's dead useful for self-help. Imagine someone's had a lovely day, all day, and someone says something unpleasant that upsets them. A common response is: "You've ruined the whole day", because the whole day is viewed through the frame of being in an upset state. The way to get over that is to reframe to a happier memory of the day so that the 8 hours of happiness is not overshadowed by the unhappiness of 10 minutes. It works, too.