quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
If we set ourselves up as a properly secular state with constitutional protection then it wouldn't matter so much if the particularly religious, muslem or christian, became part of our legislature.

It would be nice if that was true but it's not worked in the US though has it? It was the Christian fundamentalists that got gay marriage banned in California recently.

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
So what do you see there "hope" is on a religious level then?

hope of avoiding this....
a labour mp or a moslem party representitive?

you see its not just there, its on the ground too and it scares people, to those the bnp is seen as someone to stop it.

I find it shocking that people are afraid of Muslims taking up percentage wise the amount of seats they should have by the law of averages. should I be afraid then of a parliament controled mostly by white males? Perhaps.

oh good God yes

look at the bloody mess the country is in now cos of 'em

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
So what do you see there "hope" is on a religious level then?

hope of avoiding this....
a labour mp or a moslem party representitive?

you see its not just there, its on the ground too and it scares people, to those the bnp is seen as someone to stop it.

I find it shocking that people are afraid of Muslims taking up percentage wise the amount of seats they should have by the law of averages. should I be afraid then of a parliament controled mostly by white males? Perhaps.

well as i stated its not my view so before i get jumped on by a certain person i'd like to make that clear.

this guy however is (or could be a special case) only because in his constituency he gives the appearance of only helping his own "brothers", further to that the local electors there quickly found because of the much higher voting percentage of his people (and again i mean those he describes in his constituency leaflets as his moslem brothers") and because of this it became almost impossible to elect a non moslem so all parties started to put up islamic candidates and so it went on. i can therefore understand why some people in that constituency might feel disenfranchised and since there are many former mill towns right across the pennines it is a feeling that COULD be repeated in other constituencies, its not an issue that effects my constituency so i only know the specifics of this one mp/cabinet minister but as i say it could explain some bnp votes in those areas.

and blizzie, yes i think you are right its the new bete noir to some people just as colour or sexuality is to others simply because of one or two extremists in their midst.

quote:

Originally posted by Queen of the High Teas:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
If we set ourselves up as a properly secular state with constitutional protection then it wouldn't matter so much if the particularly religious, muslem or christian, became part of our legislature.

It would be nice if that was true but it's not worked in the US though has it? It was the Christian fundamentalists that got gay marriage banned in California recently.

America is a highly religious society with a secular state and a history of professed Christianity in its leaders. I'm hoping the UK has gone beyond that, given our own history, but I take your point that it's not foolproof by any means.

The thing with stuff like gay marriage is that it's usually argued against with arguments other than religion but based in society which has religious artefacts in it. At least with a secular state, politicians couldn't in theory argue for or against stuff with an overtly religious argument without it being overturned.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
So what do you see there "hope" is on a religious level then?

hope of avoiding this....
a labour mp or a moslem party representitive?

you see its not just there, its on the ground too and it scares people, to those the bnp is seen as someone to stop it.

I find it shocking that people are afraid of Muslims taking up percentage wise the amount of seats they should have by the law of averages. should I be afraid then of a parliament controled mostly by white males? Perhaps.

well as i stated its not my view so before i get jumped on by a certain person i'd like to make that clear.

this guy however is (or could be a special case) only because in his constituency he gives the appearance of only helping his own "brothers", further to that the local electors there quickly found because of the much higher voting percentage of his people (and again i mean those he describes in his constituency leaflets as his moslem brothers") and because of this it became almost impossible to elect a non moslem so all parties started to put up islamic candidates and so it went on. i can therefore understand why some people in that constituency might feel disenfranchised and since there are many former mill towns right across the pennines it is a feeling that COULD be repeated in other constituencies, its not an issue that effects my constituency so i only know the specifics of this one mp/cabinet minister but as i say it could explain some bnp votes in those areas.

and blizzie, yes i think you are right its the new bete noir to some people just as colour or sexuality is to others simply because of one or two extremists in their midst.

So are you saying, in his area that there was no other choice other than muslim candidates in the main parties and that therefore led other people in another part of the country to vote BNP? And that because muslims vote more that that disifranchises whites? Surely then the white non voters are doing that by themselves by not voting ... and im not saying that all white non votes are BNP. Also, Did tooting elect a BNP person

Yorkshire's a beautiful part of the world.
But if I was from the area that elected a BNP member, I'd be embarrassed and ashamed.

quote:

Originally posted by Demantoid:
Yorkshire's a beautiful part of the world.
But if I was from the area that elected a BNP member, I'd be embarrassed and ashamed.

Sorry, but I don't think that's fair at all. That's suggesting that we have control over what other people choose to do. Like many other people up here I voted in the election, I've made my views on the BNP and it's voters perfectly clear, I've signed petitions and joined in protests. I have no direct influence on education to equip people to make more discerning political choices. I have no direct influence on the local economy, which is the major reason that the BNP have gained a seat here. The BNP are a bunch of ignorant bigotted nazi's, but they have won the majority of it's votes not on race issues, which let's be honest here is the primary reason that most of us hate them, but on the issue of the economically and socially disenfranchised working class predominantly white communities which have been left to rot by all of the major political parties afer the collapse of the industrial economy. It's certainly not a proud moment in Yorkshire's history but I'm not ashamed or embarrassed of living in Yorkshire at all. I'm ashamed that the whole country has allowed a political system to continue that would allow people to have such a poor grasp of political understanding and I'm ashamed that nobody in the system has stepped in to make these people feel that their concerns are being heard. Maybe this will be the wake up call that the 'real' politicians need to start addressing the needs of all voters and not just the chattering classes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comm...ope-bnp-nick-griffin

I was appalled at Yorkshire and the Humber...my area.

But not surprised...some very misguided and uneducated people out there....they have no idea what the BNP actually stand for and have cast a vote very stupidly imo.

Very disappointing.

quote:

Originally posted by Demantoid:
Yorkshire's a beautiful part of the world.
But if I was from the area that elected a BNP member, I'd be embarrassed and ashamed.

I think that's rather over the top.

Im not embarrassed to be here in Yorkshire...I'm damn proud.

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
So what do you see there "hope" is on a religious level then?

hope of avoiding this....
a labour mp or a moslem party representitive?

you see its not just there, its on the ground too and it scares people, to those the bnp is seen as someone to stop it.

I find it shocking that people are afraid of Muslims taking up percentage wise the amount of seats they should have by the law of averages. should I be afraid then of a parliament controled mostly by white males? Perhaps.

well as i stated its not my view so before i get jumped on by a certain person i'd like to make that clear.

this guy however is (or could be a special case) only because in his constituency he gives the appearance of only helping his own "brothers", further to that the local electors there quickly found because of the much higher voting percentage of his people (and again i mean those he describes in his constituency leaflets as his moslem brothers") and because of this it became almost impossible to elect a non moslem so all parties started to put up islamic candidates and so it went on. i can therefore understand why some people in that constituency might feel disenfranchised and since there are many former mill towns right across the pennines it is a feeling that COULD be repeated in other constituencies, its not an issue that effects my constituency so i only know the specifics of this one mp/cabinet minister but as i say it could explain some bnp votes in those areas.

and blizzie, yes i think you are right its the new bete noir to some people just as colour or sexuality is to others simply because of one or two extremists in their midst.

So are you saying, in his area that there was no other choice other than muslim candidates in the main parties and that therefore led other people in another part of the country to vote BNP? And that because muslims vote more that that disifranchises whites? Surely then the white non voters are doing that by themselves by not voting ... and im not saying that all white non votes are BNP. Also, Did tooting elect a BNP person

please read carefully what i said and dont try reading in things i didnt.

i said that in that one particular case the mp did little or nothing for non moslems in his area (in fact even his election leaflets were different) and that at the same time voters had the choice of other parties but not of non moslem candidates (caused be the previously mentioned heavy voting by the moslem community mostly postal and almost entirely for labour) and i'm saying that in that particular area and only that area i do know for a fact that non moslems (of whatever ethnicity) did begin to feel as if they had no voice and because of that i can see how the bnp could exploit that fact to gain votes, the place i was talking about was an average northern mill town of which there are many, now, whilst i cant say with any certainty of course because i dont know it is possible that other similar towns could have similar issues and that could have led to the same thing happening in other towns across the pennines.

as to tooting, no idea, certainly london didnt in the euros

a quite normal girl at work said she would vote for them. Im afraid their persuasive election broadcasts have fooled some people who probably dont know that Griffin was in the National Front and has been convicted for insiting racial hatred.

quote:

Originally posted by fookat:
a quite normal girl at work said she would vote for them. Im afraid their persuasive election broadcasts have fooled some people who probably dont know that Griffin was in the National Front and has been convicted for insiting racial hatred.

Well said and very true.

The mans a disgrace and he makes me sick to the core.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
So what do you see there "hope" is on a religious level then?

hope of avoiding this....
a labour mp or a moslem party representitive?

you see its not just there, its on the ground too and it scares people, to those the bnp is seen as someone to stop it.

I find it shocking that people are afraid of Muslims taking up percentage wise the amount of seats they should have by the law of averages. should I be afraid then of a parliament controled mostly by white males? Perhaps.

well as i stated its not my view so before i get jumped on by a certain person i'd like to make that clear.

this guy however is (or could be a special case) only because in his constituency he gives the appearance of only helping his own "brothers", further to that the local electors there quickly found because of the much higher voting percentage of his people (and again i mean those he describes in his constituency leaflets as his moslem brothers") and because of this it became almost impossible to elect a non moslem so all parties started to put up islamic candidates and so it went on. i can therefore understand why some people in that constituency might feel disenfranchised and since there are many former mill towns right across the pennines it is a feeling that COULD be repeated in other constituencies, its not an issue that effects my constituency so i only know the specifics of this one mp/cabinet minister but as i say it could explain some bnp votes in those areas.

and blizzie, yes i think you are right its the new bete noir to some people just as colour or sexuality is to others simply because of one or two extremists in their midst.

So are you saying, in his area that there was no other choice other than muslim candidates in the main parties and that therefore led other people in another part of the country to vote BNP? And that because muslims vote more that that disifranchises whites? Surely then the white non voters are doing that by themselves by not voting ... and im not saying that all white non votes are BNP. Also, Did tooting elect a BNP person

please read carefully what i said and dont try reading in things i didnt.

i said that in that one particular case the mp did little or nothing for non moslems in his area (in fact even his election leaflets were different) and that at the same time voters had the choice of other parties but not of non moslem candidates (caused be the previously mentioned heavy voting by the moslem community mostly postal and almost entirely for labour) and i'm saying that in that particular area and only that area i do know for a fact that non moslems (of whatever ethnicity) did begin to feel as if they had no voice and because of that i can see how the bnp could exploit that fact to gain votes, the place i was talking about was an average northern mill town of which there are many, now, whilst i cant say with any certainty of course because i dont know it is possible that other similar towns could have similar issues and that could have led to the same thing happening in other towns across the pennines.

as to tooting, no idea, certainly london didnt in the euros

Sorry BBBs I did read what you wrote very carfully and about ten times . I dont know what it is but I find It very hard to undestand what it is that you are saying. & I am confused. So I will have to draw and line under this and perhaps agree to disagree although, quite frankly I dont know weather (sp) we do or not.

quote:

Originally posted by fookat:
a quite normal girl at work said she would vote for them. Im afraid their persuasive election broadcasts have fooled some people who probably dont know that Griffin was in the National Front and has been convicted for insiting racial hatred.

i actually thought their election broadcast was very poor the guy kept messing with his hands all the way through it, made him look really shifty.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by fookat:
a quite normal girl at work said she would vote for them. Im afraid their persuasive election broadcasts have fooled some people who probably dont know that Griffin was in the National Front and has been convicted for insiting racial hatred.

i actually thought their election broadcast was very poor the guy kept messing with his hands all the way through it, made him look really shifty.

I don't think people that voted for him are that perceptive....unfortunately.

Found this for anyone against the BNP... http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/page/s/notinmyname