Parking Ticket Appeals...clarification required on the 56 day rule thing.

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Croctacus

So in January my Husband went to Southwark for Jury Service and parked in a parking bay and got a pay and display ticket from the meter which was about 20 feet from where he parked....he checked for signs to make sure it wasn't residents only and there were none that he could see in the vicinty.
When he got back a few hours later he had a ticket saying he was parked in a residents only bay....he still couldn't see the signs!
So we sent off and a letter explaining this together with proof that he'd bought a ticket in good faith (£9 he'd put in the meter) cos after all if you knew you were going to get a PCN who would bother buying the ticket!

We heard nothing until yesterday when we got a notice to owner saying that he now owed £120 instead of £60 cos he'd not paid and if he didn't pay it would go up to £180 in 28 days!
We have never had any acknowledgement or reply to the letter he sent in January.

I phoned Southwark parking and they confirmed they had received the letter and was told thye could see no reason why we'd not been replied to. They confirmed it was residents only (so why put a meter there?). The man I spoke to suggested I put in writing the fact that I'd not had a reply to earlier letter as we should be given the chance to pay at the £60 and not the £120.

Now the crux of the matter is, I believe that because the authority did not reply to the letter we sent within 56 days of them receiving it then they are breaking regulations under the Road Traffic Act and the ticket should now be cancelled cos going over the timeline means our appeal is automatically upheld.

I want to send them a snotty letter but i'd just like confirmation I'm right...and a bit of help on the wording would be handy too!

Cheers

Replies sorted oldest to newest

BBBSMember

quote:
Originally posted by FGG Aka Crocodile Rock:
So in January my Husband went to Southwark for Jury Service and parked in a parking bay and got a pay and display ticket from the meter which was about 20 feet from where he parked....he checked for signs to make sure it wasn't residents only and there were none that he could see in the vicinty.
When he got back a few hours later he had a ticket saying he was parked in a residents only bay....he still couldn't see the signs!
So we sent off and a letter explaining this together with proof that he'd bought a ticket in good faith (£9 he'd put in the meter) cos after all if you knew you were going to get a PCN who would bother buying the ticket!

We heard nothing until yesterday when we got a notice to owner saying that he now owed £120 instead of £60 cos he'd not paid and if he didn't pay it would go up to £180 in 28 days!
We have never had any acknowledgement or reply to the letter he sent in January.

I phoned Southwark parking and they confirmed they had received the letter and was told thye could see no reason why we'd not been replied to. They confirmed it was residents only (so why put a meter there?). The man I spoke to suggested I put in writing the fact that I'd not had a reply to earlier letter as we should be given the chance to pay at the £60 and not the £120.

Now the crux of the matter is, I believe that because the authority did not reply to the letter we sent within 56 days of them receiving it then they are breaking regulations under the Road Traffic Act and the ticket should now be cancelled cos going over the timeline means our appeal is automatically upheld.

I want to send them a snotty letter but i'd just like confirmation I'm right...and a bit of help on the wording would be handy too!

Cheers

a quick word with a cab solicitor or any solicitor that offers a free first hour consultation should steer you right.

6/3/0912:42 AM

bigdaddyostrichMember

The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007 Reg.5

Duty of enforcement authority to which representations are made

5.—(1) The enforcement authority may disregard any representations which are received by it after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the relevant notice to owner was served.

(2) Where representations are made to an enforcement authority by virtue of regulation 4(1) and in accordance with regulation 4(2), it shall subject to paragraph (1) be the duty of the enforcement authority—
(a) to consider the representations and any supporting evidence which the person making them provides; and
(b) within the period of 56 days beginning with the date on which the representations were served on it, to serve on that person notice of its decision as to whether or not it accepts that—
(i) one or more of the grounds specified in regulation 4(4) applies; or
(ii) there are compelling reasons why, in the particular circumstances of the case, the notice to owner should be cancelled and any sum paid in respect of it should be refunded.

(3) Where the enforcement authority accepts that a ground specified in regulation 4(4) applies or that there are such compelling reasons it shall—
(a) cancel the notice to owner; and
(b) state in the notice served under paragraph (2)(b) that the notice to owner has been cancelled and at the same time refund any sum paid in relation to the notice.

(4) The cancellation of a notice to owner under this regulation shall not be taken to prevent the enforcement authority from serving, in accordance with the General Regulations, a fresh notice to owner on another person.

(5) If the enforcement authority fails to comply with paragraph (2)(b) within the period of 56 days there specified, it shall be deemed for the purposes of these Regulations to have accepted—
(a) that such of the grounds referred to in paragraph (2)(b)(i) as were relied upon in the representations apply; or
(b) in a case where paragraph (2)(b)(ii) is relied upon, that there are compelling reasons of the kind referred to in that paragraph,
and paragraph (3) shall apply accordingly.

6/3/0912:52 AM

CroctacusMember

Cheers for that....So I am right then...

Should I write to them or now just let it go and quote that at them if they try to take it further?

6/3/0912:57 AM

bigdaddyostrichMember

quote:
Originally posted by FGG Aka Crocodile Rock:
Cheers for that....So I am right then...

Should I write to them or now just let it go and quote that at them if they try to take it further?

Don't let it drift: next thing you kknow they'll be towing and crushing the motor.

Write to them, referring to the above regulation and insist that the Notice to Owner be quashed

6/3/091:03 AM

tuppsMember

If you make representations before the 28 days in any event that would only be seen as informal and the best that can happen is that the LA may extend the 14 days for paying the reduced penalty while they consider your letter. But that is not a given. If it is any consolation most informal appeals don’t get a reversal soooo..

The time for formal representations is after issue of the Notice to Owner (yeah.. I know). Now you get to make formal representations to the LA.

I’d mention in the letter that you have sought to make informal representations on [insert date] and you are disappointed that you have had no response.. yadda yadda.

Your letter making formal representation will need to include the grounds on which you make it: and looking at what you have posted you’re going for the alleged contravention didn’t occur because the parking restrictions were not properly signed. Did the hubby take a picture of the car in situ to show there was no signage? If not it might be an idea to go back there and take a few photos showing that. It would probably do no harm throwing in the ‘man doing his civic duty by attending jury service’ thing too.

If you go to moneysavingexpert.com there is handy info on the appeals process and even a template letter.

Bundle it all off and wait for the letter accepting or rejecting your claim.

6/3/091:15 AM

CroctacusMember

The thing is he didn't take photos at the time...and the ticket at the time wasn't clear on whether it was for parking in a resident's bay or not having a ticket to park at all....very ambiguous wording on it...

Until we got the thing yesterday we still weren't sure what he'd been done for...but when he wrote he covered both bases!

Its miles away from home but I bet 4 months on theres bloody signs up now!

6/3/091:58 AM

EssieMember

quote:
Originally posted by FGG Aka Crocodile Rock:
The thing is he didn't take photos at the time...and the ticket at the time wasn't clear on whether it was for parking in a resident's bay or not having a ticket to park at all....very ambiguous wording on it...

Until we got the thing yesterday we still weren't sure what he'd been done for...but when he wrote he covered both bases!

Its miles away from home but I bet 4 months on theres bloody signs up now!

It's a longshot but you could try google street view to see if the signs are up.

6/3/092:10 AM

tuppsMember

quote:
Originally posted by FGG Aka Crocodile Rock:
The thing is he didn't take photos at the time...and the ticket at the time wasn't clear on whether it was for parking in a resident's bay or not having a ticket to park at all....very ambiguous wording on it...

Until we got the thing yesterday we still weren't sure what he'd been done for...but when he wrote he covered both bases!

Its miles away from home but I bet 4 months on theres bloody signs up now!

Still worth stating it in the letter, although difficult to prove. Note for the future though.. if it happens again gather evidence while in situ.. yaaay for camera phones.

Might be worth checking the PCN and the Notice to Owner letter for any procedural cock-up.. long shot because I think most LAs have tightened up on those since there was a raft of appeals based on technicality but still worth making sure. That moneysavingexpert website is helpful and if you google there are a whole load of sites and forums about PCNs.

I had one in my borough when my permit had fallen off the bliddy windscreen.. had to happen on the one bliddy day the enforcement officer decided to grace my road. They accepted the reduced amount but still had to pay something.. meh..

6/3/092:11 AM

CroctacusMember

ooh good thinking!!

6/3/092:11 AM

CroctacusMember

If we have to we're willing to pay the £60 but not the £120..no way....we wrote within the specified time and had 28 days to pay the first amount...its down to them not answering that we went over the time!

6/3/092:14 AM

The Devil In DiamanteMember

Always send letters to them by recorded delivery

They have a 'habit' of not replying....at least that way you know they've signed for it!

6/3/092:14 AM

CroctacusMember

I looked on street view and there is a sign...miles back down the road...it looks all shiney and new though...its about 100 yards down the road from where he parked...whereas the meter stating Pay Here is 3 car lengths away!

6/3/092:18 AM

CroctacusMember

quote:
Originally posted by The Devil In Diamante:
Always send letters to them by recorded delivery They have a 'habit' of not replying....at least that way you know they've signed for it!

I know they have it though cos they told me on the phone they did..its all logged on their computer systems.

6/3/092:19 AM

EssieMember

quote:
Originally posted by FGG Aka Crocodile Rock:
I looked on street view and there is a sign...miles back down the road...it looks all shiney and new though...its about 100 yards down the road from where he parked...whereas the meter stating Pay Here is 3 car lengths away!

I wonder if Bigdaddyostrich knows how far away the signs need to be to apply?

6/3/092:27 AM

CroctacusMember

Just a quick update to say we have today had a letter confirming they have cancelled the ticket....I appealed in the end on the basis that there was not adequate signage...and I also mentioned that I had written over 4 months previously but they'd not bothered to reply!

7/27/094:12 AM

The Devil In DiamanteMember

Good stuff....really pleased to managed to get it overturned

I think most folks give up due to all the red tape!

7/27/094:15 AM

CroctacusMember

I did read somewhere that a huge proportion of those challenged get overturned so its always worth a punt.

7/27/094:16 AM

The Devil In DiamanteMember

quote:
Originally posted by FGG Aka Crocodile Rock:
I did read somewhere that a huge proportion of those challenged get overturned so its always worth a punt.

I tried it with my Friends, he put enough in for half hour, then extended it for another hour. The parking time is a maximum of 2 hours, then you cannot come back and park there for another hour after the 2 hours is up....the machine says NOTHING about extending a half hour ticket to the full 2 hours, and, the wardens check round every 20 mins or so, so they know he hadn't gone over the 2 hours....

...anyways, it was a waste of time and they wouldn't overturn it even though when I phoned the Town Hall, the Lady said it would be overturned....we gave up in the end...couldn't be bothered...

7/27/094:20 AM

jeppaMember

There`s a local councillor here who has been having a running battle, now nationwide, about parking charges, he`s been on a number of tv shows.
The only time I experienced one personally was 3 years ago. My husband was having chemo and had been to the hospital that day, we called back into the town for me to do some shopping and parked where we always do with our blue badge and clock and my husband waited in coffee shop whilst I did shopping. When we returned to the car we had a ticket as when he`d set the time on the clock he`d accidentally set it an hour out.
I wrote to the council and explained all this and they made me send in his cancer diagnosis to prove he actually did suffer from it and the appointment card from the chemo ward to prove he was actually on his way home from there. They also insisted that they were the original documents and not photocopies.
They did cancel the ticket but sent a strict letter informing us that they would not do so again should we make another mistake. By that time I`d lost my husband but I still feel that it was not right that we had to share personal medical details and letters with anyone else.

7/27/094:55 AM

sweet_toothMember

quote:
Originally posted by The Devil In Diamante:
quote:
Originally posted by FGG Aka Crocodile Rock:
I did read somewhere that a huge proportion of those challenged get overturned so its always worth a punt.

I tried it with my Friends, he put enough in for half hour, then extended it for another hour. The parking time is a maximum of 2 hours, then you cannot come back and park there for another hour after the 2 hours is up....the machine says NOTHING about extending a half hour ticket to the full 2 hours, and, the wardens check round every 20 mins or so, so they know he hadn't gone over the 2 hours....

...anyways, it was a waste of time and they wouldn't overturn it even though when I phoned the Town Hall, the Lady said it would be overturned....we gave up in the end...couldn't be bothered...

Feeding the meter- I thought you weren't allowed to do that no matter how long you had been there. I don't think it says so on the ticket machines, is just one of those rules you either know or you don't I think.

7/27/095:01 AM

queenshaksMember

Well done Croc

We had a ticket overturned many moons ago but I know it can be hard, so much bloody red tape!

7/27/096:05 AM

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