and now we will get the scramble for school places

I did indeed.

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
I did indeed.

*ahem*
a long time ago? and do you think we should use it now?

Hi Machel

I was in the first year in London that didn't sit the 11 plus and went to a school that had been a grammer school until that year.

It was really strict and had a much more classic themed education than the comp where I eventually went when we moved.

I can see pros and cons for grammer schools tbh - I think whichever way we educate kids then some will suffer

Yes and passed - just! I was in hospital with grumbling appendix but still had to do it. It didn't kill me but it only set the pace for your 'sets' or forms in primary school - like the sats. The language was quite advanced too - have you seen passed papers for O levels with the same questions re-written for today's pupils? How complex the O level papers read. In those days I believe your spelling/grammar etc was taken into consideration with all exams too.

quote:

this archaic (sp) system is still in use in lincolnshire,

still used in my corner
of South East London, .

quote:

Originally posted by machel:

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
I did indeed.

*ahem*
a long time ago? and do you think we should use it now?

It depends. In my county we passed to go to a grammar school. The kids at the secondary modern took exams in subsequent years and had the chance to transfer. Quite a few joined our sixth form too. I think the kids at the sec modern had a better education than some of today's academies.
BUT! I know that this was not the case in every county.

I dont remember sitting it,but I did go to a church grammar school.

i went to a comp which "set" for different subjects (this allows for being good at maths but crap at science etc) but in grammar's you have to be the best in all,
in lincs the push for passing 11+ can very extreme, ( a local school had practice sessions during the hols) where failing is unmentionable and frowned upon, surely this is detrimental to the child?

No, but I did take my cycling Proficiency test and I have all manor of swimming badges.

The other thing I would point out is that my county was very prosperous and the Education department were very powerful and influential. These were also the days of one nation toryism (Tories who were much much to the left of Brown and Blair) One nation tories believed that everyone should have the opportunity to succeed whatever their background.

quote:

Originally posted by machel:
i went to a comp which "set" for different subjects (this allows for being good at maths but crap at science etc) but in grammar's you have to be the best in all,
in lincs the push for passing 11+ can very extreme, ( a local school had practice sessions during the hols) where failing is unmentionable and frowned upon, surely this is detrimental to the child?

I think that you have to get kids ready for the reality of life.

quote:

It depends. In my county we passed to go to a grammar school. The kids at the secondary modern took exams in subsequent years and had the chance to transfer

We still have 12+ & 13+ if the local grammar school has any spaces, Also you can gain entry into the Grammar school for 6th form onwards.

Where we lived they took the top 5% of each Secondary school, at the age of 13, and sent them to Grammar schools.

We didn't have to do a special exam, just the normal end of year exams, and the teachers decided who went.

I was often threatened with not getting in, due to being the class clown and doing homework on the bus in the mornings.


Here you can do the 11+, but the competition is fierce and I didn't want my kids to have that much pressure at such a young age.

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

quote:

Originally posted by machel:
i went to a comp which "set" for different subjects (this allows for being good at maths but crap at science etc) but in grammar's you have to be the best in all,
in lincs the push for passing 11+ can very extreme, ( a local school had practice sessions during the hols) where failing is unmentionable and frowned upon, surely this is detrimental to the child?

I think that you have to get kids ready for the reality of life.

i'm all for getting kids ready for life (please can we have proper sports days!) but here there is so much emphasis on passing because grammar schools are the only places to be, pupils are deemed failures before they have started secondary school

quote:

Originally posted by machel:

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

quote:

Originally posted by machel:
i went to a comp which "set" for different subjects (this allows for being good at maths but crap at science etc) but in grammar's you have to be the best in all,
in lincs the push for passing 11+ can very extreme, ( a local school had practice sessions during the hols) where failing is unmentionable and frowned upon, surely this is detrimental to the child?

I think that you have to get kids ready for the reality of life.

i'm all for getting kids ready for life (please can we have proper sports days!) but here there is so much emphasis on passing because grammar schools are the only places to be, pupils are deemed failures before they have started secondary school

Yes I know what you mean. I kept all my friends, we still all knocked about together, and whether it was all smoke and mirrors, nobody seemed to feel a failure.
The failures seemed mainly to exist at grammar school. Loads of stories, but my the most concerning was the boy who burst into tears because he was second in Physics (First in everything else) He had to be assisted home because obviously his Father was going to knock him about.

We dont have the grammar school system here...theres one comprehensive takes the kids from all 7 feeder primary schools.


I'm personally glad as I like the mix my kids get at their school.It also means they dont get separated from their mates at 11(tho I know thats all part and parcel of life),but the thing I'm most greatful for is that my youngest daughter would never have passed an entry exam to a grammar school,yet is gifted at lanuguages.

quote:

but here there is so much emphasis on passing because grammar schools are the only places to be, pupils are deemed failures before they have started secondary school

Spot on machel, the whole of year 5
in our borough is spent on preperation for the 11+. It's almost an obessesion, fairplay to children in with a chance of passing. My son never had a hope of passing as he had special needs, yet they entered him for the experience

& why does every pupil that fails the 11 plus, only seems to fail by 1 point.

& doesn't the atmospher at the school gate
change once the result come out.

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
I think that you have to get kids ready for the reality of life.

To pass it here, the 'reality of life' is school all day and then homework and tutoring every night!

quote:

Originally posted by machel:

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

quote:

Originally posted by machel:
i went to a comp which "set" for different subjects (this allows for being good at maths but crap at science etc) but in grammar's you have to be the best in all,
in lincs the push for passing 11+ can very extreme, ( a local school had practice sessions during the hols) where failing is unmentionable and frowned upon, surely this is detrimental to the child?

I think that you have to get kids ready for the reality of life.

i'm all for getting kids ready for life (please can we have proper sports days!) but here there is so much emphasis on passing because grammar schools are the only places to be, pupils are deemed failures before they have started secondary school

And the grammar schools invariably are seen as having the better teachers than the other local schools.

quote:

Originally posted by RZB:

quote:

but here there is so much emphasis on passing because grammar schools are the only places to be, pupils are deemed failures before they have started secondary school

Spot on machel, the whole of year 5
in our borough is spent on preperation for the 11+. It's almost an obessesion, fairplay to children in with a chance of passing. My son never had a hope of passing as he had special needs, yet they entered him for the experience

& why does every pupil that fails the 11 plus, only seems to fail by 1 point.

& doesn't the atmospher at the school gate
change once the result come out.

my nearest grammar is excellent but they push the idea that their pupils are "the best" (my daughter attended so i know what i am talking about) and the local sec modern is full of "failures" you can pass the 11+ but still not get a place there because competition is fierce, hence all the preparation beforehand

I sat the 11+ way back in 1961 and we called it the "scholarship", I passed and went to a Convent Grammar School. Got a brilliant education but there are no grammar schools left in our region now, used to be all comprehensive but seem to be mostly changing to acadamies.

Trouble is, different kids blossom at different ages. I got a scholarship at 6 and they tried to throw me out by 13. Lots of boys who were top of the class at 11 finished with worse results than me, who always bounced around the botton of the class.

quote:

Originally posted by Teddy Bleads:
Trouble is, different kids blossom at different ages. I got a scholarship at 6 and they tried to throw me out by 13. Lots of boys who were top of the class at 11 finished with worse results than me, who always bounced around the botton of the class.

you are not allowed to fall below a certain standard at the local grammar, a girl in my daughter's class was struggling so what did the staff do? overload her with more "practice" to bring her up to their higher standards, dad had insisted she attend the grammar (as he and her brothers had) because it was "the best school"

quote:

Originally posted by Teddy Bleads:
Trouble is, different kids blossom at different ages. I got a scholarship at 6 and they tried to throw me out by 13. Lots of boys who were top of the class at 11 finished with worse results than me, who always bounced around the botton of the class.

Its quite widely recognised now kids can be 'aerly rice', 'middle rice' or 'late rice' and girls tend to mature earlier than boys.
My youngest daughters classic.Spent all her primary years struggling(compared to her younger brother who 'got' it first time).Shes now absolutely thriving..and has to give her brother a hand with his work!

Grammar schools had been phased out in my area by the time I reached 11, but I truly believe that I had a better education at my comprenensive school that kids are having today.

I praise any kid for achieving good results at GCSE, although I think that CSE and O'level were harder as it was more dependent on academic achievements.

If I had kids now, and the 11+ was available to them, I would encourage them to take it, but would tell them it's not the end of the world if they didn't get the results they wanted, but would try by any means possible to keep them out of the state Education system, especially at senior level, if it meant cutting living costs and going private - so be it.

quote:

Originally posted by PinkBabe1966:
Grammar schools had been phased out in my area by the time I reached 11, but I truly believe that I had a better education at my comprenensive school that kids are having today.

I praise any kid for achieving good results at GCSE, although I think that CSE and O'level were harder as it was more dependent on academic achievements.

If I had kids now, and the 11+ was available to them, I would encourage them to take it, but would tell them it's not the end of the world if they didn't get the results they wanted, but would try by any means possible to keep them out of the state Education system, especially at senior level, if it meant cutting living costs and going private - so be it.

there are some good sec modern schools in my area, but against the grammar they look poor,
parents are now choosing which school to send their child to and it makes me laugh when they view tables and ofsted reports, these are only as good as previous results/inspections, it is the pupil and parent that make a difference,

I went to a grammar school but never took the 11+...we always knew at my primary school that there were three places available each for the top three boys and top three girls at the local boys and girls grammar schools.

Although we don't have grammar schools in my borough, (Greenwich) the neighbouring borough (Bexley) does and anyone can sit them so long as they apply before the deadline. My oldest sat them cos he wanted to (under no pressure from me, maybe cos I knew he'd walk it and he loved taking tests) and he scored 80 above the passmark and was in the top 2%...but he never got a place and so I didn't bother with the others cos I didn't want them to be as disappointed as he was....he was gutted that he never got the school of his choice.

As it happened had he taken it a couple of years later he'd have got in cos they changed the rule and the top so many got places regardless of geography.

i'm off now to study which secondary school my daughter should attend

I sat the 11+ and actually passed. We still have it here in SW London too

quote:

Originally posted by machel:
sat the 11+ ?
this archaic (sp) system is still in use in lincolnshire, some tutors/schools have been practicing for up to a year, do you think we should change the system?

Yup And I failed it My dad went nuts as I got into the worst school and he sent me private instead When I sat the test I didn't have a bloody clue what was going on. I was so oblivious as to what I was doing it for!

quote:

Originally posted by machel:

quote:

Originally posted by PinkBabe1966:
Grammar schools had been phased out in my area by the time I reached 11, but I truly believe that I had a better education at my comprenensive school that kids are having today.

I praise any kid for achieving good results at GCSE, although I think that CSE and O'level were harder as it was more dependent on academic achievements.

If I had kids now, and the 11+ was available to them, I would encourage them to take it, but would tell them it's not the end of the world if they didn't get the results they wanted, but would try by any means possible to keep them out of the state Education system, especially at senior level, if it meant cutting living costs and going private - so be it.

there are some good sec modern schools in my area, but against the grammar they look poor,
parents are now choosing which school to send their child to and it makes me laugh when they view tables and ofsted reports, these are only as good as previous results/inspections, it is the pupil and parent that make a difference,

I absolutly agree with you over the pupil and parent making a difference, I was encouraged by my mum to learn, and was always academically enclined, my brother was not so good academically, but is very technically minded and my mum has often said she wished the two tier system had been in place as I would probably ended up at grammar school and my brother at a techincal/sec mod school and had the type of education that would have been more helpful to him.

The reason I would go into the private system if I had kids is our LEA is one of the worst in the country and it seems to me it's a "one size fits all" type education now, even with the advent of academies, we do have one very high performing academy school in our LA that is completely oversubscribed. The other schools seem to just be ignored, our LEA more concerned with building new schools than improving standards in the schools already there.

I feel that the Government have let our kids down, after coming in to power with the slogan "Education, education, education", where, 12 years on are the real benefits?