oh im well up on both WWI & WW2
Well you shouldn't make such simplistic comments then.
both wars were evil
both wars took a lot of lives
but im not having this bollox about
'what a shame for the germans'
bloody dictators
no
not having a bar of it
im not a pc person
look i dont give a shit if i never come here again
if you lot want to pander to pc talk
its really up to you
I used to meet on this date with one of the old guys from the first 1000 bomber raid on Cologne and we'd remember the Germans who died as well as everybody else.
it was an awful time for the world
but im still not sure why Germans started
both wars
maybe i'll buy a book and read up about it
You know that would be a really good idea.
Pirate all I said was it was simplistic to say the Germans started both wars. The origins of WW1 were a lot more complex, countries were tied into historical alliances.
I just thought it was insensitive to post straight after Col mentioned her mother sheltering during the bombing of Cologne, that the Germans started both wars.
The Treaty of Versailles, reparations, the Great Depression, the rise of Fascism in Italy, Spain and Germany... the origins of WW2 were complicated also.
What you kicking off for?
cologne
lots agrees with you because they dont want to be seen as un pc
but the fact is when you moan about dresden & lots of people being killed
tough
because Germany started the war
they bombed us
we bombed you
we were the most humane
we didnt have auschwitz
im sick and tired of pretending
and i KNOW most of you agree with me
but you wont say anything
im off
im annoyed
Pirate all I said was it was simplistic to say the Germans started both wars. The origins of WW1 were a lot more complex, countries were tied into historical alliances.
I just thought it was insensitive to post straight after Col mentioned her mother sheltering during the bombing of Cologne, that the Germans started both wars.
The Treaty of Versailles, reparations, the Great Depression, the rise of Fascism in Italy, Spain and Germany... the origins of WW2 were complicated also.
What you kicking off for?
Thanks Rosie.
im off
im annoyed
So am I.
cologne
lots agrees with you because they dont want to be seen as un pc
but the fact is when you moan about dresden & lots of people being killed
tough
because Germany started the war
they bombed us
we bombed you
we were the most humane
we didnt have auschwitz
im sick and tired of pretending
and i KNOW most of you agree with me
but you wont say anything
Do you know about the camps Britain had in South Africa, about the slaves, about the Empire building? If you really had read up about the history you wouldn't be such a bigot. I'm done with you.
Pirate all I said was it was simplistic to say the Germans started both wars. The origins of WW1 were a lot more complex, countries were tied into historical alliances.
I just thought it was insensitive to post straight after Col mentioned her mother sheltering during the bombing of Cologne, that the Germans started both wars.
The Treaty of Versailles, reparations, the Great Depression, the rise of Fascism in Italy, Spain and Germany... the origins of WW2 were complicated also.
What you kicking off for?
Thanks Rosie.
cologne
lots agrees with you because they dont want to be seen as un pc
but the fact is when you moan about dresden & lots of people being killed
tough
because Germany started the war
they bombed us
we bombed you
we were the most humane
we didnt have auschwitz
im sick and tired of pretending
and i KNOW most of you agree with me
but you wont say anything
Do you know about the camps Britain had in South Africa, about the slaves, about the Empire building? If you really had read up about the history you wouldn't be such a bigot. I'm done with you.
Empire building?
you wouldn't be such a bigot
twice youve called me a bigot
well im not a bigot
i speak as i find
anyway i dont want to to talk to you anymore
in fact
youre bloody annoying
but i wish you well
I don't think it's PC to take a structuralist approach. Listening to my parents and their siblings I drew the conclusion that WWII was rather like their Woodstock. It was totally the major occurrence in their lives. I have always been fascinated by it and thus read up on it. When my Mum was 87 we took her to Germany to meet our friends and their parents and we had some fantastic discussions. T'was fascinating to compare experiences and look at photos. Just ordinary people meeting ordinary people.
We don't need to go much further than Farrago to understand how people with lazy political analysis led by poor rôle models can mess everything up.
I don't think it's PC to take a structuralist approach. Listening to my parents and their siblings I drew the conclusion that WWII was rather like their Woodstock. It was totally the major occurrence in their lives. I have always been fascinated by it and thus read up on it. When my Mum was 87 we took her to Germany to meet our friends and their parents and we had some fantastic discussions. T'was fascinating to compare experiences and look at photos. Just ordinary people meeting ordinary people.
We don't need to go much further than Farrago to understand how people with lazy political analysis led by poor rôle models can mess everything up.
If we're going to start apportioning blame for who started the war (WWI anyway) I'd say it was more at the door of Austria-Hungary. Not because of any assumed outrage over the assassination of Franz-Ferdinand and his wife, but they used it as a pretext to go to war with Serbia. They thought this would be a fairly short-lived, local conflict....and it might well have been, but for all the various treaties and alliances between various countries which gradually drew everyone in.
Sympathizing with German people over the atrocities that they suffered has nothing (necessarily) to do with being PC. The vast majority of Germans were as horrified by the war as most of the rest of the world was.
I think that this thread was specifically aimed for the British servicemen and women who lost their lives? The title and opening post led to me to understand that and, given the timing of this thread, I think that was Pirate's wish?
Another thread would have been more tactful to discuss the wider topic, perhaps?
I think that this thread was specifically aimed for the British servicemen and women who lost their lives? The title and opening post led to me to understand that and, given the timing of this thread, I think that was Pirate's wish?
Another thread would have been more tactful to discuss the wider topic, perhaps?
Perhaps. but it was pirate himself who first mentioned the subject of who started the war. So it's not really a strange thing for others to comment on that.
I think that this thread was specifically aimed for the British servicemen and women who lost their lives? The title and opening post led to me to understand that and, given the timing of this thread, I think that was Pirate's wish?
Another thread would have been more tactful to discuss the wider topic, perhaps?
I don't think it's very tactful to ignore the way I feel. My contribution to the thread was saying how my mum coped with being bombed out of her home. If 11.11.1914 had nothing to do with that, why bring it up?
Fluffy, the forum is slow, but thanks for your learned opinion.
And pirate, you do not need to apologise for having a different view/opinion to others, but belligerently saying that YOUKNOW that the rest of us actually are in agreement with you, but are not expressing it because of PCness is not exactly going to endear you to folk either.
If you and Cologne are not going to get along, then just ignore/post round each other.
I think that this thread was specifically aimed for the British servicemen and women who lost their lives? The title and opening post led to me to understand that and, given the timing of this thread, I think that was Pirate's wish?
Another thread would have been more tactful to discuss the wider topic, perhaps?
I don't think it's very tactful to ignore the way I feel. My contribution to the thread was saying how my mum coped with being bombed out of her home. If 11.11.1914 had nothing to do with that, why bring it up?
Yeah, and I feel pretty upset too, Cologne, but this thread isn't about me personally. I lost a lot of family during both wars but I'm not in this thread to detail them specifically; I came to post my respects to all the British forces and their allies. No more than that.
Sorry if I was disrespectful before . Especially to those whose relatives served for their country. I was partly thinking back to earlier this year when we lit / extinguished a candle to commemorate the start of WW1. During the televised service from Westminster, there was a reading in German which was very poignant.
Of all the numerous programmes I've watched over the years about the British forces in WW1 there comes across a strange sad respect for the soldiers on the other side. They were just cannon fodder. A lot of them reserved their anger for their own Generals 100 miles behind the line.
Even Rudyard Kipling, the most proudly British of all writers looked back on WW1 with mixed feelings. After his son was killed in the First World War, wrote: 'If any question why we died/ Tell them, because our fathers lied.'
Hopefully its not disrespectful to remember the other side too [ at least for WW1]. If you watch War Horse on Sunday you'll see what I'm trying to say. It gives the perspective of the ordinary German soldier too. It was based on a very popular play and I don't remember the British Legion protesting about it.
I don't think anyone has been disrespectful.
All of our families have in some way been touched by war.
The thread developed and went elsewhere as they often do.
im not saying sorry for what i said
its how i feel
if you dont want to talk to me
then block me
as the saying goes
'ive got bigger fish to fry'
having said that
i think most of you are lovely/great
and would like to be here to keep in touch
thats it really
All of our families have in some way been touched by war.
The thread developed and went elsewhere as they often do.
Very true. My great uncle was shot during the Christmas truce and one of his brothers (a pilot in WWII) was shot down and suffered brain damage. He hanged himself outside Gartnavel Royal Hospital in Glasgow - a double tragedy, if you like. And I'm sure many families across the world can come up with similar anecdotes, as Joe says.
No worries, Pirate.
No worries, Pirate.
Ditto
Okey dokes Pirate
im not saying sorry for what i said
its how i feel
if you dont want to talk to me
then block me
as the saying goes
'ive got bigger fish to fry'
having said that
i think most of you are lovely/great
and would like to be here to keep in touch
thats it really
You better stay here, otherwise you'll suffer the wrath of Yogi.
im not saying sorry for what i said
its how i feel
if you dont want to talk to me
then block me
as the saying goes
'ive got bigger fish to fry'
having said that
i think most of you are lovely/great
and would like to be here to keep in touch
thats it really
You better stay here, otherwise you'll suffer the wrath of Yogi.
ooh blimey lol
ok
im not saying sorry for what i said
its how i feel
if you dont want to talk to me
then block me
as the saying goes
'ive got bigger fish to fry'
having said that
i think most of you are lovely/great
and would like to be here to keep in touch
thats it really
You better stay here, otherwise you'll suffer the wrath of Yogi.
ooh blimey lol
ok
Oooo, Pirate I'd take notice of Yogi if I were you. She's real scary
Oh well.
Oooo, Pirate I'd take notice of Yogi if I were you. She's real scary
Yeah, I am!
Oh well.
Oh well.
And you#ve to stay put too!
Oh well.
And you#ve to stay put too!
Yes she does